Episode 43:The Year of 1985 Territory Review, World Class Championship Wrestling

[00:00:02] Speaker A: Time for the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel podcast. We've got lots and lots of things to talk about and to do today. Covering the territories from the 1940s to the 1990s. It's the best thing going today. Interviewing wrestlers, referees, authors and other media personalities that have made the sport of professional wrestling great. The cream, yeah, the cream of the crop. And now here's your host, Tony Richards. [00:00:33] Speaker B: Well, hello everybody. Greetings and salutations from the Richards ranch in Western Kentucky. I'm Tony Richards and here we go with another edition of the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel History podcast. The Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel community is your home for the history of territory wrestling. I hope your new year is off to a great start and thank you so much for joining me once again today. Hey, before we get into today's show, I just want to tell you about a couple things I'm working on and that I'm involved in. I wanted to mention the series I've been doing with my friends Jerry Briscoe and John Bradshaw Layfield on stories with Briscoe and Bradshaw. It's turned into an amazing 10 part series on the history of the Roy Welch wrestling dynasty. It spanned over four generations. It's still going on and on and on with his bloodline in the pro wrestling business. Roy first traveled south in 1933 and it's, it's sentimental to me because the first place he wrestled in the south is my hometown, or at least it's the closest big town to my little hometown of Paducah, Kentucky. That was in 1933. And then he started wrestling around in Kentucky and Tennessee and Missouri and Arkansas. He started booking Nashville, Tennessee in 1937 and forming his own territory of towns that would be known later as the Tennessee Territory. He set up the Mid south booking office and started booking wrestlers out in his towns and other territories. He and Nick Goulis took Nashville by Storm in 1940 when they started booking a program with maybe the best drawing heel in southern wrestling history, Pat Malone, who was under a mask as the Green Shadow. And we covered a lot of that in some of the shows on the Roy Welch wrestling dynasty. It's a very compelling story about pro wrestling history and Roy Welch should be in every pro wrestling hall of fame in existence. Sadly, he's in nun. But Jerry Briscoe made the announcement a couple of weeks ago on the show that we would be inducting into the Tragos thes Hall of Fame in Waterloo, Iowa this year. The Roy Welch family and his grandson Ron Fuller. Welch is going to be there in Waterloo, Iowa this year in July to accept the induction into the hall of Fame. And I'm so looking forward to it. Ron has joined us on the last two episodes of this 10 episode series about the Welch family. And so we're going to be wrapping that up with this week's episode. And it's 10 episodes, almost, almost two and a half hours each. So I'm on there with Jerry and John and we've talked about the Roy Welch wrestling empire for almost 20 hours on that podcast series. And I'm very proud of the work that we did there. And thank you for everybody who's made comments and you've been very supportive and said some very nice things. I just want you to know from the bottom of my heart how much I appreciate it. And that just spurs me on to get out the files and dig into the history and do another great series. I think I'll probably be doing maybe two more series with Jerry and John this year in 2026. And I couldn't be more excited. Also Thursday night, January 22nd, that's this Thursday night, as this show is coming out on Wednesday. But It's Thursday night, January 22nd. I'll be on live on the WFIA podcast. It's Wrestling with the WFIA with Chris DeCarlo and Benny Scala and Mike Did Gregorio. And we always have a great time there. And we do Hollywood Squares this time around. And on the Hollywood Squares what we it looks like the Brady Bunch windows, right? I'll be on there with my good friends George Shire, Terry Sullivan, Wes Maidment, Brittany Brown, who was trained by Killer Kowalski and others. And we're going to have a great time on the Hollywood Squares on Wrestling with the wfia. That's this Thursday night. And I think they broadcast that live on YouTube. So you can watch that live Thursday night or you can watch the recording that they'll have posted up there on the Playa Entertainment Network. Okay. So that's what I'm doing in other places. Let's talk about what we're doing here on our network in the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel history show today. We just, I want to also mention we just released a bonus episode for you guys this past Monday. I like doing that. I like giving you as much value as possible here. And so I wanted to do I've had it on the booking sheet for quite some time because I knew we were turning the calendar to 20, 26. And as you know, I like to go back in time periods 40 years, 50 years, 60 years, 70 years back. So last year we were doing 75 and 65 and 55 and so on. This year we're on the sixes. So we're doing 1986, 1976 and 1966. Right at the beginning of the year, on January 7, we had an NWA World Championship title change as Gene Kinisky defeated Luthes in St. Louis, Missouri at the famous Keel Auditorium. I go into that with my friends George Shire and Steve Varier, who wrote the book on Gene Kinisky. So check that out. It's episode 42, special bonus episode this week here in the Time Tunnel. All right. Now, today we got a great show. And here in January, probably going to spill over into February because we're reviewing all the existing territories in the year 1985. Vince is on the move. He's expanding nationally. Crockett secured the TBS time slot. They're expanding outside their territory borders. Mid South Wrestling is about to do a brand change. World Class is sending wrestlers to Israel. It's an exciting year in 1985. And today here on episode 43, I'm going to welcome a new co host to the show and his name is Lance Peterson. And Lance was the biggest World Class championship wrestling fan you can imagine. He still is today, but back in 1985, he was going to the Sportatorium, to the television tapings and to the special shows. He was going to Reunion Arena. He was going to the Star wars shows. And I'm excited to hear his stories today as we as we take a trip back to World Class championship wrestling in 1985. He's a fountain of information. He's got a lot to say and we're going to talk about all of it today. So I'm excited to share this with you here on the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel History Show. Let's go back to the year 1985 and world class championship wrestling. Welcome back to another segment here at the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel podcast, everybody. This is Tony Richards. And as the sun sets here at the Richards Ranch in Western Kentucky, I'm welcoming a special guest here. First time guest, which is here in 2026, we're going to have some new folks that you haven't heard before on the Time Tunnel Show. And as we're kicking off here in 1985, recap of all the existing territories that were remaining in professional wrestling. I couldn't think of anybody better than to have this fellow on to talk about World Class championship wrestling in the year of 1985. This guy grew up in Dallas. He was around during the world class heyday, he went to all the huge arena and stadium shows during the great times and all the changes. He went through the USWA and the global and all of those different name changes and ownership changes. And he started tweeting out all of his thoughts in 2011. So he's 14, 15 years down the road and sending out all this great stuff. He's been on the book in the Territory podcast as a special guest regular. He's also been on my friend John McAdam's podcast show on Stick to Wrestling. And when I first came across this guy, I thought, you know, I'm going to work with this guy one of these days and today's the day. So I'm happy to welcome to the show, Mr. Lance Peterson. How you doing, man? [00:09:30] Speaker A: Hey, Tony, it's a pleasure. I mean the work you do on X Twitter, you know, it's exactly what I'm looking for. Some of the history, the women, you know, you always have the history of the ladies and things like that. I, we had the Pro Wrestling hall of Fame in Wichita falls, Texas, about 150 miles out of Dallas. We had that going for about five years. Johnny Mantel ran it. There were such great pictures I was able to take there. I would have taken more pictures if I had known that they were going to close down. I always thought, well, I'm taking these pictures kind of from a distance because you know, people need to come here and see it. But Johnny did a great job. They did close. But I do have a second Twitter account that does have lots of pictures that I took the few, the three years I went through there. [00:10:17] Speaker B: What's that one? [00:10:19] Speaker A: Memories of the Pro Wrestling hall of Fame. Yeah, that's. I don't go to it too much, but it's. I just sent out a reminder tweet of that because I don't touch that very often. I put all those out there, you know, met some great people through the years. You know, pictures with older stars of Pampero Ferpa came in a year. Kabuki was supposed to come in one year and covet hit. It was still a slim chance he was, he would come in, but that would have been, I think that's the only world class monster that I haven't met beside, you know, Kabuki. I mean, besides Bundy and Kamala, you. [00:10:54] Speaker B: Know, I had an outstanding, I had an outstanding photo and I still got it around here somewhere that I tweet out from time to time, especially if it's on the anniversary of her Death or something. But Jerry Briscoe was a huge fan of Vern Bottoms, and Vern Bottoms had a great outfit. It was a look like the American flag kind of ring jacket. And that was on display there, Wichita Falls. And I've asked some people, you ever, you know, whatever happened to that? And they're like, oh, man, it could have been, you know, in a box or we. Somebody could have it in storage or maybe that went back to their original donor or whatever. But you are correct. There were. I never got to go. But, man, I always. I had it on my list of things to do to get to Wichita Falls. [00:11:36] Speaker A: So there's a slim chance that someone has those that did do promoting here in Dallas. We're not sure of it. I hope so. And so that's Gray Pearson, who ran a little bit of Dallas, the Sportatorium for in the later years. Because I understand he. It was neat. [00:11:51] Speaker B: All that stuff needs to be out for people, you know, to be able to enjoy and all of that. That was the original intent of it. And it's too bad that all that. That happened with the hall of Fame, but that beside the point. I've written that down because I want to go there. Because the great thing about social media is once you put it out there, it's out there. So even if you haven't updated that Twitter account in a while, all the great stuff you have tweeted in the past is still out there. So I'm gonna go check that out, man. Thank you. [00:12:18] Speaker A: Fantastic. [00:12:19] Speaker B: All right, so we're talking about World class. We're talking about 1985, and they still had a lot of muscle in 1985. And where do you rank world class? So we almost have to put like. Because obviously they're still in existence today, the wwf. Let's say they're at the top of the list. Then how do you rank the promotions after that in 1985? And I know you're biased. We all are. [00:12:47] Speaker A: I am. You know, it's the WWF because of where we are now. WWF ran their first show December, late December of 84. And you know, they didn't have a crowd at all, you know, in Dallas. They didn't. Right. It took years. I went, finally went to the first one in 80. October of 87, during the worst part of World Class. World Class even had a little bit more of a comeback after that, you know, so they didn't have much of an effect on us at all. The. [00:13:16] Speaker B: I mean, they had trouble. They. Even with Paul Bosch's endorsement. I Mean, they had a tough time in Houston. So. Yeah, Texas was a tough. [00:13:24] Speaker A: Yeah. In Mid south was still in 85. Still a. An ally, if you will. There was a lot of trading. Dr. Death came in for maybe a couple of appearances. There wasn't much fanfare at all. So they, you know, Carrie went more to Mid south several times. Iceman, I believe, went up there and we had 12, man that we'll talk about at Texas stadium where, you know, Dr. Death came in. So there wasn't a problem with Mid South. It didn't. No. No rivalry. You know, Fritz is staying in his own lane. I think, you know, maybe that's the problem down the road that a lot of people will say, you know, I was a magazine. [00:14:00] Speaker B: They thought Fritz should have been more aggressive. You mean. [00:14:03] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, people were pushing him to do more and more and go out. But, you know, the boys were really comfortable here, you know. You know, the. They were. They were really comfortable. They owned the town and it was going, you know, they were married here. Life was here. [00:14:21] Speaker B: They were, you know, they were kings of the kingdom. [00:14:23] Speaker A: There is. It can't be overstated. They ruled the planet. You know, they closed down Six Flags. They would be somewhere and they would close it down. All as all the shoot interviews, discuss things that they really were the top of the world. And we felt more such a passion. The people that are here, because they're just down the street from us. They grew up watching the same shows we watched. You know, they were in here they are. I. I personally think of them as A lot of people looked at them as the. The cool guys at the ymca. You go to the ymca. Seals, cool older brothers, cooler older guys. Well, that's how they looked. And hey, every week they're telling us to. They need us to help them. You know, they. If Fritz did have the right chemistry and knew how to take care of the fans. There's so many great payoffs. Carry wing the title or that hair match. And how could you give the fans back any more than that? That hair match. They shaved them bald right there. And it was a party. Besides the production looking so great, I was such a magazine head. I was kind of into everything. I was always into TBs at world class TB and then, you know, TBs as it changed through the years, that. That was my go to. But I was watching it all, glued to it through all the years, through all the pay per view, beginning of pay per view, you know, to the end of time. [00:15:38] Speaker B: They were the. Some of the best baby faces in all of Wrestling history, you know, I mean, they were, it's true, they were tremendous. And even though it's. I always find it difficult to compare different eras, you know, it's hard to look at a Dick the Bruiser from the 1960s and look at the von Erichs of 1980s and try to figure out where the spot is. But the Von Erichs, they transcend a lot of that and they would have been awesome in any era. [00:16:07] Speaker A: I think I really sing the praises of the Free Birds, not having a machine behind them and being able to go so many spots and headline. I mean, I was just watching, you know, one of the reunion shows the other day and they're doing an interview was Christmas 8083 and Buddy and Terry Gordy are doing that. Terry Gordy's just a kid, but he's already headlined all over the place in the United States, that is. He had just started going to Japan at that point and it's just amazing. [00:16:36] Speaker B: He'd only been in the business 10 years, I mean, and he was most of the people. I mean it usually takes six years to just get to the middle of the card, you know, and at least kind of know what you're doing. But I mean, Terry had, he was on Rocket Fuel for sure. [00:16:51] Speaker A: One of, One of those 84 shows was the WWF coming in. I'm sorry, 85 after. Not that first one, but in 85 they came back and I did the top guys. The average age of the Top guys was 36 on that WWF card, while the top. The average age of the world class show the next Friday on that Friday night was 27. 26, 27. Gino and, and Kevin, kind of the old men. Not, not really. Iceman's a little older, but you know, of those, that core headliners, that's what it. You know, they were right there. You know, that was the excitement, those, the steps we had. And you know, I think Ken Mantel was the booker up until that change in, in the middle of 86, but I think it was more of a committee. I know that David Manning, who, you know, we tease a lot about David Manning getting to be on the microphone and getting to announce things, but he really was important behind the scenes. He, he had kind of been Gary Hart's right right hand before Gary Hart Left in late 82, right before that cage match. And you know, Bronco scanned our Akbar, but Fritz listened to Michael Hayes a lot. And those steps, you know, Ken Mantel tried to redo a lot of those steps going into the penalty bo in in Mid south. But it just wasn't the, the gritty, you know, matches of the Freebirds, Von Erichs and World Class, I like to say Free Birds. Von Erich's was a kind of a. More of a brawling feud. While when Kevin and Carrie went against Geno and Chris there was a lot more wrestling to it, you know. So we, you know, there was a big change there. But then of course after that there's a big drop off and we'll get that to the end on our show. [00:18:30] Speaker B: Well, definitely. I mean you can't take anything away from Michael Hayes. I mean he's the guy still doing it, you know, I mean still in the business. He's still providing creative ideas and creative direction. [00:18:41] Speaker A: So I sing his praises, he never responds. I've had a lot of people through the years respond to me on things and you know, I sing his praises and he kind of stays to himself unless there's something goes on. But that's okay. I understand. [00:18:53] Speaker B: I don't blame him for that. And again, you got a guy who has really what he and Terry were. It's started coming around about 77. So I mean he's only in the business now seven years or so and he's got these great ideas and you know there were a lot, a lot of creative minds in the business to soak up from too. And they made their, their way through Georgia and Tennessee and the different places. So let's talk about. So if we're going to talk about 1985, let's talk about how 84 ended and transition into 85. [00:19:29] Speaker A: Well, the end of 84 was the the Kevin Von Erich, Chris Adams feud that it heated up. They had two matches on the holiday shows, the Thanksgiving and Christmas that I am not a fan of. Kevin was work must wasn't getting paid by the hour. He got in there, they did it and it's both are very short. I think Thanksgiving is just a bit longer. I don't know what the situation was on that, why it was so short. They after that they kind of transitioned to where Carrie and Chris Adams had more of a went into that and Kevin was doing his own thing heading into a world title match at Texas Stadium. I enjoy Kevin and Carrie versus Gino and Chris as singles wrestlers. Geno and Chris had been tagging but they're not yet at that dynamic duo heyday if you will. That's going to be a little later. Right now we've got, you know, one man gang coming in at the beginning of 85 to feud with Carrie, we have the Fantastics and the Midnights are in. And the biggest thing I can say is world class. Fritz didn't realize what he had with Jim Cornett till Jim already had one foot out the door. They had already planned on, you know, being in really a short time. And you know, it's. It was. He didn't know what he had. And really the Midnights were only in there with the Von Erichs a couple times. Literally less, maybe, maybe five times. But, you know, they just, they weren't, you know, in there. They were putting them with the Fantastics. On every house show, you know, they each. They have two single matches and then that tag match this Midnights and the Fantastics. By the way, I will say the. The crowd goes where the Fantastics go. The Fantastics are what I like to say, part of the family. They weren't there in 83, came in late 84. But when you think of Geno, Chris, the Free Birds, Von Erichs, the people here, you know, I, I wasn't the only one that had albums full of pictures of the Fantastics, the, the. My buddies and the, the girls I knew that were all my age, that I have their collections. They all. It's all, you know, the Fantastics. And they did help during such a bad time for World Class, which I is 87. There was even a little comeback in 88. [00:21:41] Speaker B: So let me ask you this question. So why do you think. Why do you think that Fritz was more open to a. Michael Hayes ideas, but he really didn't. He didn't. Wasn't receptive for a Cornet. [00:21:58] Speaker A: You know, I thought about it. I thought is before Cornet came in, where was the last sissy character? And I say that with love and respect, you know, for what Cornette did. [00:22:08] Speaker B: Rich boy, soft boy, kind of. [00:22:10] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, you see the, the. The Geno doing, you know, kind of a flare copy, but you don't see that. And with. With the Midnights not doing interviews, I just don't know. I don't know what brought them in. You know, how, how that was that they didn't take off with it because of course they'd done such great work in Mid south previously. I knew what they had done. You know, I'm such a magazine head at the time. And we really didn't get much Mid south here in Dallas. It was through different sections that we would get it or hit tbs and you get it and it would go away. [00:22:48] Speaker B: Who wanted them to come in there to begin with? Who called? [00:22:52] Speaker A: You have to. You'd have to think that it was Ken Mantel and. [00:22:57] Speaker B: Going. [00:22:58] Speaker A: Yeah, you have to. [00:22:59] Speaker B: Ken Mantel usually was, you know, pretty receptive to guys ideas, you know, I would have thought he'd have been soaking up every just throwaway idea that Jimmy had back then. [00:23:10] Speaker A: Then they just put them, you know, with the Fantastics. They were just married to the Fantastics here and. Yeah, as I said, the Fantastics are well thought of here. And they were our rock and roll express, honestly. [00:23:23] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, sure. And I, I don't think Jimmy had the confidence in 85 to be forceful with his ideas. You know what I mean? I mean, I, I don't think until he was about halfway through his time in the Crockett territory, he even felt comfortable speaking up and say, hey, I think we ought to do this. You know what I mean? [00:23:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:41] Speaker B: So he probably was just trying to. I mean, this is only their second territory. Well, Jarrett, you know, but then they went to Watts was their first real big full time job. And so maybe he's still winning friends and influence and people, you know, and doesn't want to. And then they also also knew they had Crockett in their back pocket to go to also, I guess. [00:24:01] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that. I think that was the plan all along. And they ended up coming to Dallas just because they'd already said they would come. I mean, just, it's a quick six months. It's there. They're in Christmas to, to July. In fact, the midnights are out and they do an angle with Cornet and Sunshine that I'll mention later. [00:24:18] Speaker B: Oh my gosh. Yeah, that was fantastic. Fantastic. I, I wish it would have worked out better though. Just. I don't know, I just would have liked to have seen Cornet being there for at least 12 months and, and really do some of the things we saw him do either before world class or after world class. But we got what we got. [00:24:38] Speaker A: So we got. [00:24:40] Speaker B: All right, so Billy Jack Haynes, he just all of a sudden disappeared, huh? [00:24:45] Speaker A: You know, he comes in and It's a, it's January 7th, they give him the tech, the, the TV belt over in Fort Worth. And, and I do want to mention to people, you know, besides the syndicated show, we also had this Channel 11 show that a lot of people got in North Texas. Well, everybody North Texas. But it went out on this kind of superstation. And that was on Saturday nights here in Dallas. It was a slower show, more of the mid card, opening card, but great interviews every single week hosted by Mark Lawrence, who I think is the real Storyteller of, of world class because he had to sell us on the house shows every single week. Tell us how we should be thinking and viewing each of these, each of these events that's happening. Keeping us updated. Bill Mercer on the syndicated show had to speak in more general terms. His stuff was delayed. He's not selling it to the paying audience. He's. It's going out to on syndication. But Mark Lawrence is selling it to me, you know, selling me the tickets. And so anyways, that's how I was setting the stage on that. Fort Worth. [00:25:49] Speaker B: So Fort Worth say this too for people who are might be new to wrestling history or you might just be a new listener or watch or whatever. When, when Lance is saying the syndicated show, that's the show that was done at the Sportatorium in Dallas. [00:26:04] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:26:04] Speaker B: And the. Was it KV TV or KTVT? [00:26:08] Speaker A: KTVT, Channel 11. I'll call it Channel 11, a Fort Worth show. I'll say that a lot throughout this. The other was the channel 39 at the Sportatorium that, that more people are familiar with. But you miss a lot by only having the syndicated show. Unfortunately, you miss, you miss a lot of little things. They were, they were moving. Mercer's never sure what's been revealed yet. He speaks in general terms. In fact, four days before Chris Adams was blinded, he does an interview with the Sportatorium and he's only right at the front row doing this, doing the close to the show, saying that Chris Adams has been hurt. We think it's his eyes. And that was done four days before it happened. I thought about those people in the front row and it was still 85. So it's kind of a risque. We didn't see that kind of thing very often. But let's, let's go ahead. [00:26:57] Speaker B: Two other things for those who are not really up on your geography. Dallas and Fort Worth are both part of what is called the Metroplex, and they are sort of side by side cities. And Fort Worth had been traditionally a Monday night town in that territory and Dallas was a Tuesday night. But by 1985, what Nights of the week are they running? Lance? [00:27:22] Speaker A: Yeah, we're still Monday and Friday before. Right. When this, the channel 39 show started. They started filming the end of 81. Really didn't hit till 82. They were filming on Tuesday nights before that and it had been Sunday nights before that. Right. So it's funny when I look at dates and I'm trying to think of it and I go, oh, right, that, that wasn't a Friday night. So people still weren't doing the Texas football. It was strong, but hey, that free words. Von Erichs packed them in. [00:27:49] Speaker B: Well, for those who aren't really familiar that much with Texas wrestling history, when I started tweeting out a lot of cards and stuff like that, people are like, dallas runs on Friday night. I'm like, well, not. They didn't used to, you know, that that was. That was changed some there in the late 70s somewhere. But you've already told me two or three things I didn't know or I don't remember. But I didn't ever remember a TV built. [00:28:14] Speaker A: Right. Never discussed on the main one. I think that was done by the promoter over there, Elizabeth Moore, that we had. We had just talked about on Twitter the other day. [00:28:23] Speaker B: Ken Moore, right, Ken. [00:28:25] Speaker A: Yeah, that's some. That's some crazy history there. That's really, really neat that they were the promoters over there. Of course, you know, Fritz's crew is still, you know, doing the storylines, but there they had taken it from Cowtown Coliseum over there in the Fort Worth stockyards and put in Will Rogers. And anytime Will Rogers was full, they put it in the auditorium. I never went to Will Rogers for a show. I went to it for the rodeo, the big Fort Worth rodeo. But I did go to the auditorium about a year ago and saw Kevin do a. Do a sit down where he was. I saw him do it in Dallas and I went over to Fort Worth and saw him do it again. And that was great. And Kevin and David Manning and a local sports guy that did the interviewing and it was, you know, it was pretty fair. And Kevin looked in great shape because the first one that was in Dallas, I didn't know. I didn't know what. He kind of disappeared off social media after being kind of, you know, talking to everyone on social media and throwing out a lot of hot opinions. But, you know, that's amazing. [00:29:24] Speaker B: I never knew that they had a television bell built that there was a TV title. [00:29:29] Speaker A: You know, I real quick. So Sanit, besides Dallas, Fort Worth on Monday nights in Dallas on Fridays. The other two other huge towns were San Antonio once or twice a month. And that would usually be the beginning of the week on Sunday. So Gino comes into the area. That's his first night is Sunday in San Antonio, and then Monday is. Is Fort Worth. During the week are spot shows at your high school? My high school three years. You know, all these superstars that I consider hall of Famers are our hall of Famers at my High school and everybody else is around here. Friday night is the. Is the Dallas show and also Lawton, Oklahoma, which was a. David Manning and, and David Von Erich actually co promoted Lawton, Oklahoma. Lawton had programs that looked great. So did San Antonio. San Antonio had its own promoter down there that would. They would have T shirts that you can see on the syndicated show that say WCW World Class Wrestling. Because World Class Championship Wrestling was a TV show. Yes. One other note on that is you know how when they left the nwa, suppose you know how that went. And they called it the World class wrestling association. WCWA. Even as early as the. Those early 82 episodes use that term when some decision needed to be made and they said the WCWA board that it was here. We'll get into the. The. A little bit of the change later on but if you want to jump in. I just wanted to start. Start Fort Worth. January 7th was a. Was a card that they had a re. A rematch of the Christmas night 84. That was. It was Carrie and Flair that went to some crazy finish. That Baby Doll's dad was there as the NWA referee that night and Nick Roberts came to the ring and said we need a rematch as soon as possible. So they had this, this regular Fort Worth show was on 1-7-85. That's where Billy Jack Haynes beat Geno to win the Texas title. One Man Gang debuted and actually the Fantastics beat Kelly Kaninski and Buddy Landell. Buddy Landell with one of his only appearances. I think his only appearance. And funny they even put him on the opening of the show for the next two years or so. That was his only appearance. [00:31:44] Speaker B: But Carrie and Flair, Carrie and Flair. One of those classic 60 minute. [00:31:50] Speaker A: This was the one that caused the rep, the big reputation on Carrie. This is the one where he was not right. Flair couldn't find him. You know. And a lot of people tell that story and all the shoot interviews that came out in the 90s, everybody told that story. And I'm like wait a minute, you weren't even on that card. But you know it, you know. Hey, Carries my favorite all time. Okay. You know. You know and it's great to hear people talk about what a good guy is. I like hearing that. But we all know his flaws, you know. Very realistic on it. So this is the one with all the stories as I said. [00:32:24] Speaker B: And I. And I remember the first time I ever heard Flair tell that story where they couldn't find him and they found him in the cattle stall or something like that. [00:32:32] Speaker A: Yeah. And you know they did even we, we were very fortunate that art newspaper articles came out in 83, 84 as far as the results or from the big shows. And they actually did one from this show saying that he had the flu, his dog was sick. And even the, the guy wrote it who was a regular writing for the last few years, he even said that it was 45 minutes, it didn't even go an hour that they cut it. And you know, the ringside timer, you know, showed that it was that. I was surprised they gave that away because he had been such an ally writing the, the newspaper articles. But this 85 that we get into, not just the newspapers became huge, but the rocks radio station that everybody in town's listening to. I'm 15, I'm not driving yet, I'm not going to the sport later. I was a regular at the sportator88 through all the uswa everything. But at this point I'm going to the big shows. But the radio station would be down there on Friday nights doing backstage interviews. Those guys, you know, knew the guys. Even when Gino and Chris had their haircut, the DJs got in the ring and got the first snips of the hair. And so it was, I thought where were you guys in 83? This thing was hot in 83. Because I don't think anything. I put 83 world class against anything in the world. So, so we had a whole town just going nuts. They Von Erich video game. I mean not video game, but Von Erich VHS tape, Von Erich board game and a photo book that came out through those times. It threw 85 as I'm thinking, oh man, I think the heyday's kind of gone. But anyway, I just wanted to start. [00:34:09] Speaker B: The year for some time. [00:34:11] Speaker A: It was, it was still going. So they, they ended the Fort Worth, the January 28th show. They had a huge Star wars show in Fort Worth. So they would do shows in Fort Worth, the big Star wars shows, besides doing the Reunion Arena. And then also there was Cotton Bulls and Texas Stadium throughout there. But on January 28th we go into that show. Terry Gordy has been a face, but he's had that huge Thanksgiving death match with Khan on Thanksgiving, shook hands with Carrie and all that. And then on Christmas he had a loser leave town match versus a bunch of Akbar's guys. Buddy was actually eliminated. So Buddy Roberts couldn't wrestle in Texas. Michael Hayes was not back during that area during that period. And so Terry's just on top of the world the beginning of 84. He got, he got the Title match the Friday after that Flair carry match that same week. But we go into a Star wars show in Fort Worth and this is at the Tarrant County Convention center when they would have a big show. And it was The Free Birds vs. Geno Chris Adams and Jake Roberts. And whoever won that match got the right to face the Von Erics for the six man title later in the night. So Geno Chris and Jake win it in order to keep the Free Birds away from the Von Erichs. At that point, we want to keep them away because this long term booking, they've got this plan for Texas Stadium. No doubt they had it planned. I, you know, they, they did do some long term booking. It's. It's pretty neat to see also in that match, Buddy Roberts, who couldn't wrestle in Texas, wore a mask and was the rebel. So. [00:35:55] Speaker B: And then the identifiable Buddy. [00:35:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And the Von Erichs did win that, that win that match. They took a lot of losses. I have a collage of newspaper articles I put on Twitter before shows. You know, they, they did lose all the time there. And if it was a six man, most likely just about 99% of the time it was going to be Kerry losing it. He could handle. You know, David wasn't going to lose when David was there in 83. He's on top of the world, all over the place. He's. He's the man. Kevin's not doing the job as much here and there, but Kerry's always losing the six man for the, for the team. That's just the way it was. They also had Kamala come in, came in on that late January 28th show of 85 and Kamala had not been in Dallas at all. He was upset with the payoff of the 1984 Texas Stadium, packed his bags and he went off for that WWF run that first one. And so he's never a regular again until Jarrett's in charge of the promotion in 88. It's still world class for a little while while Jared has it. But Kamala came in and fought Carrie, who Kamala always talks really well of Carrie. So I can see him coming into two to fight Carrie. [00:37:10] Speaker B: Did ever say what he got paid and why he was unhappy? [00:37:14] Speaker A: He just saw what the girls made and that's. That was it. You know, he had a relatively throwaway match with Kabuki that sounded so good on paper. Kabuki and Kamala, holy cow, this is going to be great. And it was an, it was kind of a nothing match. I think they should have Brough Brody In Brody's only 90 miles down the road wrestling that night, that afternoon of Texas Stadium 84. I wish he had been on it, but it still. It sounded great that Kamala was going to fight Kabuki. I mean, this was totally new. They hadn't. They had never crossed in Dallas. They did something in Mid south, kind of tagging, some funny stuff. And, you know, I'm a big Kamala fan. [00:37:52] Speaker B: I am too. And I, you know, I really would have thought back then, I even thought he would have gone to the WWF before he did, because, I mean, the guy was a monster heel and he had done such great work in Tennessee and also in Mid South. I hated it that he bailed out a world class like that. I just never really had heard the details about why that happened. So he got paid less than the girls that do it to me like that. [00:38:19] Speaker A: I'm sorry. It was well deserved. And, you know, I go on and on when I discuss 83 and 84 about sunshine and the character she was and the draw she was what she is still when I go on Facebook and these ladies that, you know, really just still talk well about her and there's all of us, she was a star here. I can't explain what it was. It was the, you know, those. Those valet for a day where she's whining and she was a home run from the very second. She had never done any of this. Just like Missy Precious. I don't say that about Baby Doll. Baby Doll later. Not here in Dallas when she started, you know, she just didn't do enough. But Sunshine immediately. [00:39:01] Speaker B: I don't think the lady giant was a good gimmick anyway. [00:39:04] Speaker A: No, no, I. Yeah, but, yeah, Sunshine. [00:39:08] Speaker B: The whole that old Jimmy Garvin thing, man, that was hot. I mean, that was a good angle. [00:39:13] Speaker A: So going into February, they kept Adam strong. He got to win the American title, our top belt from Carrie. And, you know, he was one of the few that got world title matches in world class during the heyday. You know, Bruiser Brody never got a title match with Flair during the heyday. And Bruiser Brody during the heyday really wasn't here that much. There was three months during. During 83 that. When Buddy was wearing the headgear and all that, that. That Brody was here, but they had him on TV all the time. And they never gave away on that syndicated show. Brody and Kamala, they. They did on the Channel 11 show, gave it away, but they never gave. They kept that one special that you had to go See Brody and Kamala, but it really, until David Von Eric and Kamala, that's only time that Kamala finally went really down. You know, they would brawl for, you know, 10 minutes until an act, bar interference. But you know, David got to put Kamala down with the claw. And you can say what you want, but it sold tickets. You know, I know, you know, I could go on and on, you know, as a, as a, you know, kind of a obviously a Von Eric guy. I can't deny it, but I'm kind of a world class guy. And I look at what sold tickets, you know, Sunshine right in there. They tried to do something with Sunshine bringing Hercules Hernandez. In fact, when he debuted and I don't think that episode is on the network, he came down to help. I think she was had Kabuki at the time as her man. She was managing and he came down with a towel on his head and trying to, at the last second he would reveal it's not Bruiser Brody. So for a second you thought it was and it's kind of hokey and he didn't last very long. She's kind of in a lull right here during, during the 85. Missy's not going to show up till October or so. But you know, Sean House shows, she's with Scott Casey eventually and, and Kabuki is her guys. So let's see. We're still not sure of what Texas Stadium is going to look like, but we know Texas Stadium is going to come and so that kind of clears what March, February and March. But as April comes in, we start taking shape. Carrie Von Erich does a claw challenge with one man gang who's under Gary Hart's. Gary Hart still has that awe here in Dallas and they do this claw challenge in Fort Worth. That is still one of my favorite things. I remember, you know, watching it live on Saturday night. Well, not live, it happened Monday and they showed it the following Saturday. And you know, that was huge. And we know the birds are coming back in for Texas Stadium. And then it's going to be a 12 man. The Von Ericsson Freebirds tagging for the first time. You know, we've never, we've never seen this and on paper this 12 man, you know, it's, I'm questioning it the whole time. They announced it's going to be a two ring show at Texas Stadium. And I am not a fan of two ring shows. I, I, I'm a, I want it right in the middle. I want to concentrate it all. And as much as I Praise the production of, of the, of world class from beginning to end. They tweak the lights, they do this and always is just improves to where that hair match looks beautiful. They knew how to film outside. Yeah, but they couldn't make that 12 man. They couldn't concentrate on what was going on in two rings and you know it. Like as I said, Dr. Death is in. That match is nothing. You know, it's just a nothing match. Kevin again, he's going to get the shot at Ric Flair at Texas Stadium. But the free birds coming in kind of overshadows that. I don't think anybody, you know, knew that, you know, Kevin's not going to win the title. And that's the finish that they did use in the Iron Claw where Kevin wouldn't take the claw off of Fritz. I mean off of, off of Flair for it test to come in and take it away. And the Midnights Express are going to have this two ring match that again, two rings, two things going on at once. It's not my favorite. That's where they had Little John ringside with, with Jim Cornette to watch Jim Cornett, Little John who wrestled Silo Stam and AWA and, and Peewee's Big Adventure. [00:43:16] Speaker B: Let me, let me ask you this question as a longtime Von Erich analyst. Do you think that finish fit? Kevin was keeping the claw on Flair like that. Did that fit? What the personality that he put out there on, on television. [00:43:30] Speaker A: I get, you know, it does, but we didn't like it at the time. It felt in that movie it made sense. [00:43:38] Speaker B: What didn't you like about it? [00:43:40] Speaker A: You know, we want something better, a count out on the, it was a count out on the ring apron. Not, not on the floor, but on the ring apron. So it was, it was pretty weak. We were used to flair doing something, you know, maybe using a weapon and then, and, and maybe they wouldn't call the dq, you know. No, they kept it going. Manning won't do it. But then Flair used another weapon or does something or God can't continue. [00:44:07] Speaker B: The heel loses the weapon. The baby face picks it up and the referee sees the baby face with it or something like that. [00:44:13] Speaker A: You know, I knew, I knew how wrestling worked pretty, pretty early on, what the story was. I was seeing tbs so you know, I realized, okay, he's escaping every place, making us look good. I knew that early on. You know, my parents, the second I started watching wrestling at, at 12, my parents kind of told me what the, what the deal was with wrestling and I couldn't Wait, let me learn the secrets. It took me 20 years on the Internet to learn lots of secrets. But it, you know, I, I, I, I watched that closely and you know, now I can see them talking. I watch the 39 syndicated show and I see them talking to each other more than, you know, obviously back in the day, you know, I didn't know to look for them talking so much. I heard that they talk to each other in matches. But you know, I can, I can see it a little bit more when I'm watching really close. I like, you know, I, when I watch channel 39 show, I, I'm looking at the crowd because I met a lot of those fans, went for a solid amount of time and then I became a regular. I would go a little bit 85, 86. But then I was a regular and I had those front row seats and I just, you know, it was my life. You know, I didn't care who else was there as long as I'm front row. [00:45:20] Speaker B: So me as a fan at the time, you're coming up on the big Texas stadium show in May and the previous 84 show is the big David Von Erich Memorial, right? So were you guys, as a fan, were you thinking this show was going to top that or looking? What were you, what were you expecting? [00:45:39] Speaker A: And I was big on the, on the one man gang match with, with Carrie and it delivered and I shaved Gary Hart. So it was kind of a throwback to old days. And you know, I always like a hair match and you know, I knew that that 12 man was kind of, you know, I, I want the guys to be used better. As in 86 carries in a six man, he gets eliminated first and he's out of there. And I'm like, wait a minute, you got carries just come off this huge year and he's out. And that's the only match he has. Because a lot of these guys would wrestle twice on a big show sometimes, you know, definitely sport a Torium shows. But there was times where they don't make two appearances. And here's Carrie and that was with Kevin. A sideline that most people didn't know beforehand that Kevin was in a sling. So it's Carrie, Lance Von Erich and Steve Simpson in that match and they eliminate Kerry because that's going to be kind of Lance's big deals. He's going to win the title for the Von Erichs. But they should have called some kind of audible there because you know, you got the, the main guy, the king of the territory. If you watch Every episode of Of World Class. It's the Carrie Von Erich show by far. You know, he is, he is. And that's the way people see it right now. You know, they, it was Carrie. It's his show. It truly, you know, people like Kevin, but they, it's Carrie who had everybody's attention that, you know, we just thought he was the coolest thing in the world, you know, you know, we're, we're living the, you know, watching the TV show and he was. [00:47:08] Speaker B: And he was. [00:47:09] Speaker A: Yeah, it looked great. I mean, he's smooth. I think people don't realize his style is a lot closer to Kevin. He, he really probably would. Kevin says he wanted to wear a go barefooted. He bear was barefooted in several matches. Not too many on tv, maybe three on tv, but I've got pictures of house shows where he wrestled barefooted. It's, it's kind of, it's kind of funny. You know, you don't think about that, but they wrestle very similarly. But I can see why people thought of David as someone who could have been a traveling world champion. Without a doubt. I know his style fit those, I want to say old timers, but he did, he went to Florida and wrestled, you know, guys that were late in their career and they loved him and so he, he would have been accepted. I my hope, you know, I, I, if he had lived, could we put him on the same level? We think of Terry Funk. I know that's kind of controversial, but he didn't live that far live and we don't know. And I don't think he could have adapted like Terry Funk. But still, I wish more people could have seen David who put had so much fire in his interviews. He was incredible. [00:48:16] Speaker B: Wonder about the National Wrestling Alliance. I mean, it wasn't holding together very well. So I don't know if there would have been a lot there for him to. I mean there weren't going to be that many places to go. Yeah, but I'm doing this by memory. But with the Midnights and the Fantastics at the Texas Stadium show, was that, wasn't that a weird finish or something? [00:48:40] Speaker A: Yeah, you weren't really sure if the. [00:48:41] Speaker B: Match was over or Right. [00:48:44] Speaker A: And see, that's, that's what Tony, that's how it looked. You know, they, they did, you know, give it to the Fantastics, but I think there was a pin. They weren't sure who got pinned first and they, it kind of, you know, it's kind of blah until they announced oh, and the Fantastics one So the place goes wild, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was very hokey, horrible. I don't, I just don't know. Two rings. It was just a. They couldn't coordinate it that well. They coordinate a lot of things. You watch the, the, the cage match with Carrie and flare from Christmas 82 with the cage door. And as my partner over there, Mike Mills had booking the territory. You know, so many moving parts that worked perfectly together. And in, in this it did died. There was a pin before a pin and you know, it was kind of just pushed under the carpet. We moved on from there as Gino and Chris then got the, the tag team titles. The Midnights were basically out the door. Fantastic little hanging out a little bit. But Gino and Chris, that's when they got there. The tag team titles after that, Texas Stadium. And of course that Texas Stadium was where they really. They went and destroyed the car that Kevin had won in the 12. Man, they, you know, jumping all over that car and escaped. That's, that's one of the big, you know, the big coming out deals of them that they're, they're, they're pushed to the moon from there. Then it's the dynamic duo. Then it's their music videos or them working out at that gym. That gym. I put that gym on, on Twitter before what they front of their gym from the Bad to the Bone video or show them shopping for cars. And Gino really did live just right down here in Dallas. You know, the apartments where he passed away were where all the guys lived over there. And I didn't go over there during the heyday. I'm not that kind of fan. I did think I went over through there in 87 or so and I think John Tatum and Jack Victory were getting into their car. But then I always wonder if people that live in those apartments now know the history or that Gino died right there because it's out there which apartment it was. And it was kind of neat where they all live because it was very convenient for Southwest Airlines down 1 mile down the street or there was the Dallas Tollway. So they could go any direction to get out of town in like two seconds to get to their, to their spot shows or whatever they needed to or the San Antonio, they're back that night on Sunday night, sleep all day Sunday and just drive over to Fort Worth, 30, 40 miles. And so it's really neat to have that. I kind of like, you know, I have a friend putting out a book about Gino and I've helped her a Little bit here and there. Yeah. Lizzie and she's wonderful. She's done a lot of work. I looked it over, you know, different parts and you know, gave my two cents here and there. But that, that. That was the big takeaways on that Texas stadium was the really the car getting destroyed. Carrie would still have matches with the one man gang. But you know, and gang was a great opponent for Carrie in. In that regard. A big man because he would react so well to Carrie' punches and that discus deal. So it was. It was really neat. That was another deal where Kamala came in for one match with Terry Gordy. That's not even on the. They didn't even film it. You know he's. He comes in but they downplay him coming in. They really do. He's in that 12 man also and he's you know, not much of nothing in that at all thinking of how big he had been. And so, you know, the summer's off to a. To a great start with Geno and Chris and they're going to get their match with Kevin and Carrie at July 4th where Kevin and Carrie versus Gino, Chris and who the Stip. The winner gets to pick the stipulation. [00:52:25] Speaker B: How many. How many Star wars cards per year were there typically in Fort Worth? [00:52:31] Speaker A: Let's say four. A four. Okay. One, two, three. Maybe. Maybe three to four. Be usually three. I can think of the. The early. The late January, early February. [00:52:41] Speaker B: That's usually one on Thanksgiving, right? [00:52:44] Speaker A: That would be a reunion arena. Always. [00:52:47] Speaker B: Always reunion Christmas in Fort Worth then. [00:52:49] Speaker A: Or no no reunion Christmas. Bam. Bam. Yeah. [00:52:53] Speaker B: Holidays were always in Dallas. Okay. [00:52:55] Speaker A: Yeah. And Dallas was always the world title match versus the six man. Six man was almost the Fort Worth belts. If there was a big show in Fort Worth it was. It was headlined by the six man world title. And Michael Hayes made that that world title. He always said it's a. We are world champions and really did well putting those belts over because at other times somebody would be a champion and not seen Iceman beats Chris Adams right around this time where we're at right after May the summer and holds that holds the American title for four or five months before losing it to Rick Rude and in the end of October and he's never on TV with the belt. They never mention it. They do mention it at the Cotton Bull show, but he doesn't have the belt with him. It's a strange. One of my biggest questions about world class. It's funny because I have such weird little questions but I don't Know why Iceman was downplayed during that time? He was going to Mid south at the time, but, you know, they gave him the belt and he just didn't do anything with that until Rick Root came in. [00:54:02] Speaker B: So we're to the big, second big Star wars show of the year, right? July. [00:54:09] Speaker A: Yeah, July 4th, what we've had Texas Stadium, but this is the second big Fort Worth show and you know it. See 14,000 fans and it's rocking. If you see the tape, that's the one where David Manning does the hangman spot. And he was talking about that in Fort Worth when I went to that show with Kim and Kevin. And Mark Lorenz is tremendous. You know, David Manning could have been killed. You know, I really think a lot of Mark Mark. I. It. I really like his style. And then I've gotten to meet him several times and I was. I got in with the ticket ladies at the Sportatorium. That's how I got to be. So I sat next to them, went and got their sodas because they'd sell tickets, be in there, get. Get to their seats by the second or third match and say, go by. Go get Mark's popcorn and not take it. You know, I was, I was, you know, whatever these ladies said because they're holding my ticket every week I walk in, go straight to the inside, deal every. [00:55:02] Speaker B: Every old school fan back from these days. The way tickets were as shows you had a ticket hookup. Everybody had. Everybody was a ringside guy or a girl. [00:55:12] Speaker A: You know, I can say I went to SMU and I went five years and I. Every year I. You would find a Sportatorium ticket in my wallet for the next week. That's. That's what I did. I always had the sport touring my. I was a trainer with the sports teams and Friday night I'd have to wait for the practices to be finished and I shoot down there to the Sportatorium. It was, it was, it was great times. However, right when I started going, they flipped the camera view to the opposite side, but there. But there is a promo picture of Kevin and Carrie carries on the floor at the sport for him. And I'm in Kevin standing, chasing somebody around. And I'm right there on the front and you know, so it's one of the best souvenirs I could possibly have. And I've had Kevin sign that. And it used to be the main thing on my Twitter profile showing off. But, you know, I loved was great. You know, a few other. One of my other favorites is I have a Piece of metal from the Sportatorium that Johnny Mantel brought to a small fan get together and I had Akbar sign it and I was sitting between Akbar and Killer Carl Cox in 2000 and I don't have enough history of wrestling to say any good questions. Here's Scandar Akbar who's fought Luth is who I kind of put as the peak. I'm. That's. That's me. You can say who you want on your. I'll put this flair and I don't care who else you put in your favorites. But you know I'm kind of big on. On Fez. I. I think people should all go watch a Fez match once a year just to remember that the old timers got after it. It's good stuff, you know. I really really do. Let's see what else we got. [00:56:46] Speaker B: More people think he was the greatest than. Don't put it that way for sure. [00:56:50] Speaker A: I. I think so. Oh by the way that that would. July 4th was also the Sunshine Jim Cornette altercation. That was the Cornette was. I think he was blindfolded. Instead of Sunshine coming in Kabuki came in and knocked him out with a kick. I am such a Kabuki fan. He's kind of the reason for the season. I. I watched when I first saw wrestling and he did a beat down and I didn't know what this was with this green stuff and what is going on. That was. That would be 81. That was his heyday was 81. It's such a. Hey such a strong. He's. He's main eventing every show. He's either with Fritz or Brody in. In the big matches and you know I'm just with a guy put on had an aura and and especially if he was in Fort Worth which is. Is that smoke filled arena type of deal at the time. It just looks so scary and you know and. And Gary Hart still kind of this had this aura about him. I I you know I just love it. You know I really do. [00:57:46] Speaker B: And this might be. I. They might have already gone to Crockett by now and Jimmy came back for yeah do a. This was a match. Maybe he just. [00:57:55] Speaker A: Yeah they'd been out about a month. They. About a month or so and so yeah they. So things are changing. This is right when that that Von Erich board game came out and there's a Von Eric scrapbook that came out that you'll see pictures of it all online. But we head into to August with the guys going on a tour of Israel Now Kevin had gone over a few minutes a few months earlier and you know, just been mobbed over there. Everything's, you know what they say on this was pretty, pretty accurate. You know, they were well liked. I don't know if the wars really stopped to watch TV for them to watch the episodes. But you know, they, they were treated well. Kevin still has an affection for these. Going over there to Israel. And they actually left Dallas the either the day before, the day before or the morning before that. Big Delta crashed in, in 1985 at DFW, our big airport. And so I guess they just got out in time if they had left that Friday morning because that Friday afternoon was this huge. They've made a movies about this, this huge, huge plane crash at that time. Delta 191, I think that's what it was. But they went over to Israel and they put on these shows. It was, it was. Kevin was really Kevin, Gino and Chris were the main guys that went over. Mike went over. Buddy Roberts who was in the middle of his AWA run was, came in for this tour and they, Mike Von Erich won the, won this little tournament that they had. And that's where a lot of questions come from. There's a lot of different views on this. People think that Mike was hurt on that tour, rushed home and had surgery, but that is not correct. The, the timeline on Mike and I'll get into this now. You know, I, I defend Mike's career throughout. He grew and grew. He worked with Buddy Roberts, Jake Roberts and Gino. Really, Really. I see Jake working hard with him. Not as many matches as with Geno and, and Buddy, but they, they got him comfortable in the ring to where he, he had debuted Thanksgiving of 83 and by Texas Stadium 84 where he's teaming with his dad. He couldn't be any more comfortable. And in fact that 85 Texas Stadium we just discussed the Von Ericsson in the corner being announced for that six man or 12 man tag. And Kevin's up, he's deflated. He had lost a flare, but he's sitting on the top turnbuckle and they announced the birds. Mike turns around and fakes a nutshot to Kevin and you're like whoa, look how comfortable he is. And right here I, you know, he seemed fine. He's. His interviews never. It never improved. You know, if you watch the Iron Claw, I wish that he had been that clear, you know, stuff but you know, I do, I joke around with the Iron Claw but you know, it was, it wasn't written by somebody that was here. You know, he didn't interview anybody for it. He's from. He's from Great Britain. The guy wrote the. The movie and he didn't interview anybody. I believe that he went to accounts like myself and to the newsletters to get the story because I can see exactly how I highlighted. I see exactly a few little things. And I. I think he went to our accounts. You know, it's not strange. They've taken my picture for Dark side of the ring of, you know, Dingo Warrior coming in. Ultimate warrior coming into the sportatorium with his wife. And it's my picture of the parking lot. Everybody responded because I'd been putting it out for 10 years at the time. [01:01:35] Speaker B: Let me ask you this question. What was besides your own, you know, you expressed your own thoughts about Mike at the time. What was the fans around you, what were their thoughts about Mike was. [01:01:49] Speaker A: They're hugging and kissing on him. We don't, you know, they. As he comes down the ring, they don't know he's not going to develop into Kevin and Carrie. He's under the microscope from day one when those guys, other guys there was always the Channel 11 show then they might lose. Yeah, you know, they. Early on this is before, you know. [01:02:08] Speaker B: The Haiti, of course they took the attitude that he's a Von Erich, but he's just kind of starting out. So we just. We just need to support him and be patient. [01:02:16] Speaker A: Oh yeah. He's part of the family. Because we love his brother so much. We love the family. It's. It's the family. [01:02:22] Speaker B: He was. So what you're telling me is he was accepted and people were very forgiving with his. So far, his experience level at the time. [01:02:32] Speaker A: Absolutely. He's selling promo pictures. The girls care. You know, they. It's so he's just fine. I just didn't. In the action in the six mans, I didn't see a drop off. Of course he wasn't David, you know. Of course. [01:02:46] Speaker B: And that wouldn't be fair. [01:02:48] Speaker A: It was just. It was just fine. They kept him away from Gordy in those six bands. He'd have a little mix up with Gore, a little bit with Gordy, but not, not anything too outlandish, if you will. It was a big deal at Texas Stadium because Mike originally it was. It was the one man gang who was going to attack the car. And Mike got to him first. Cross bodies him and it was like Mike saved the car. Did you see Mike do this? That was how the, the promotion pushed it. Of course. Gino and Chris came up, got the chain, and they're the ones that after it all calmed down, they're the ones that destroyed the car. But Mike was right there going out of. And went for the one man gang relative. But most of the time he was kept away from it from Terry Gordy. And it's funny, we have those pictures online of Gordy and Michael Gordy and Mike Von Erich where Gordy's giving him a kiss on the cheek. And I've also heard Kevin just talk so well about Terry Gordy, just so well about what a good man he was. And so that's really great. His daughter is just fantastic. Miranda, who's wrestled. Yeah, you know, she's. She's just fantastic. I met her right before she started training and I've seen her a few times at shows and, you know, just wonderful. [01:04:00] Speaker B: Lance, when. When did Mike start getting ill? Okay, when did he start getting sick? [01:04:05] Speaker A: So here it is. He had. [01:04:07] Speaker B: Now. Now's the time. [01:04:08] Speaker A: Yeah, we're right at it. Because people think he came straight back from that Israel trip and, and was hurt. He comes back from Israel, where. So we're right there at August of 85. He comes back. He actually has a match at the Sportatorium on. I think I wrote that down on August 9th against, against Geno. And it is on the network. I mean, you can see it. He has this match. He was not hurt. He looks fine. So I think that the, that he was just having more and more issues and he had already had shoulder issues and shoulder problems before. [01:04:46] Speaker B: So he's, he's fine to remind me. So did he get hurt and injured in Israel? [01:04:53] Speaker A: It does not look like it. He finished the tour, won that tournament and then has that match at the Sportatorium on August 9th. I've got that August 9th and then it was on August 12th, right after that, he's in Fort Worth and doing an interview with Mark Lawrence in the ring. Comes to the ring in a sling and says he's going in for surgery and Gino and Chris attack and beat him down so he can go off and have this surgery. So, Gene. So he goes off and does have this surgery and he out of the hospital in just a couple of days and was at a small little orthopedic hospital, one of these kind of boutique hospitals that, you know, athletes go to. There's some in Dallas that I would take some of the SMU players to. And people come in town like a Tanya Tucker goes to a small town, small hospital. That's a Boutique hospital instead of a big one. I remember her going to the same. I was taking the guys to back in the day and. But he's. He's home after two or three days and he's develops this fever and they take him back to this small, small hospital and see that they cannot handle it. And they call in this doctor Sucker from big Baylor in Dallas is what we call it centrally located downtown. It's where I was born. I'm down there five minutes from there all the time. And Dr. Sucker literally saves him. Everything right there is kind of a shoot. You know, they really did get all. Get down there and thought it was the end. He was very bad off. They. And they did have strong faith and I think, you know, he was so, so ill and they. They kind of turned it around. I believe his blood pressure, you know, really dropped. And when you. I'm sorry, what they do is your kidneys shut down and when that happens, they up your blood pressure and kind. And that turned the corner. Let. Oh, okay, he's responding. Boom. We've. We've turned the corner. Some of the facts on it are a little sketchy because I have newspaper articles. I have three. Three books in there of people's where they took their newspaper articles and made them really nice in their book. My minor in a box, all my newspaper articles on. On it. And it kind of screws up. And I did a. I did a. A Tweet back in August 3rd of 25. I have a copy of it right here where I. I kind of did the best timeline I could. Some people know that Dr. Cotton did the surgery, but Dr. Suckhurst, his infectious disease doctor that would be featured on TV the rest of 85. He would be at the big shows on the front row and. And be a smokes. A spokesman kind of for the family. Even when Carrie had his foot, his. His motorcycle accident, it was Dr. Sucker who wasn't an orthopedic doctor, but he's still doing the interviews with Carrie at the hospital talking about his situation. The viners did sue Dr. Cotton thinking that, you know, it was their fault that the. That he got an infection. But I believe they settled. I do have a article in there and. And Mercer also gets it wrong sometimes on the. On the show saying Dr. Sucker was the. The surgeon. But no, he was infectious disease. That it. That it. And so Mike, by September, Mike has made the turn. We know that Mike is doing fine. So we got to head right into this Labor Day show in again in Fort Worth. And they do you know all this time I am waiting on this hair match. I mean July 4th we, we got found out, you know that the Gino and Chris get to pick the stipulation. And a couple of weeks later Mercer's at a nightclub with Gino and Chris and they have the golden scissors and they announced it's going to be a hair match. And from then on week, week they're cutting all the opening card guys hair. They'll come out and cut your cut people's hair all throughout. Really neat how they did that leading up to Texas Stadium. But here we have this Labor Day card in Fort Worth that we've got to get through. And, and they did okay. They, they put Gino, Chris and Kevin in a match with Gino in the shark cage and that's out there easy to find. And so Kevin and Chris have their match. They lower Gino and Gino's in a tuxedo. His Brioni suit that he was to always talk about and they strip him. Was a good show. But I and Brody came in for to face the One man gang again. Brody was not in very much at all since 83 until, until he walks out on Japan at the end of 85 in that tournament. Then, then he's living here in 86. We get on. We get more Brody than anything in the world. I was trying to see. I see at that point they also. Gary Hart brought in Mark Lewin which wasn't. He would bring in Mark Lewin as a tag team, you know to put a six man together. And Mark's not doing any, any real work big as he had been in Dallas. He's not, he's not doing much but he does a lot more than the spoiler does. When Gary Hart brings him in a couple years and there's just nothing I can say good as far as great as the spoiler and his gimmick everything in the world he wasn't, he wasn't up for any bumps or anything. When he comes in in 87 they make him a, a face and but. And I was excited. I was like man, the spoilers coming in this is fantastic. And it's before you knew what kind of guy he really was and the stories that go on. But we made it through that Labor Day. [01:10:04] Speaker B: Mark Lewin is. He would have been almost 50 by then. [01:10:10] Speaker A: Very crazy. [01:10:11] Speaker B: So he, he was, he was. Had a lot of season on him put it. [01:10:17] Speaker A: I. I was hoping I mean as a magazine guy you know and I, I always think the magazines help so much put making Stars I, I really do. Von Erichs had a love hate relationship. There was an early story that came out right when David died when they had their he'll rider and it, it, it kind of messed up after thought he was in trouble after shows up at Texas Stadium. But they're still welcome after there. But you know they would go on, the guys would do radio shows. There was a Sunday night talk show one of the stations throughout the years and the Von Ericsson Freebirds would go on there and you know they might say don't read those magazines. We didn't say this or that giving it away. But you know they didn't stop. The magazines were all over the place and I've got a mountain of them in there in storage. So you know, so we're trying to. [01:11:03] Speaker B: We're in the fall. [01:11:04] Speaker A: Yeah, we're getting. Yeah we're getting to the Cotton bowl finally and it's during the State Fair of Texas which is a huge passionate thing for us here. And. And they fill it up. Unfortunately these are where cracks start to show. This is a one match show without a doubt. It's the hair match. It's a fall off from there. There's you know, if I look at it, the fantastic spot. Dave Peterson, John Tatum, them. That's one of. Missy was in the first week that was really her first. You know she met maybe two weeks or though Iceman beat the one man gang tape fist which looks horrible on tv it didn't come off very well. They broke the, the roll of quarters that gang that Iceman was supposed to use broke in the ring beforehand. So I just, it just didn't. Nothing was great except the hair match that gave us everything. And if you've seen the. The they video they filmed it all. They. They. They have a table ring side that they put up in the. In the ring so that he. That he's raised up higher so that you can see each one of them get their hair cut. Chris and Gino shaved and they just gave back so much to the fans. And if you've ever watched that episode I talk about it a lot is Gino's real life manager was front row and had a little girl next to her and dressed in yellow. She really stuck out that she's in this yellow of course now that I've watched a million times. But when they did the dark side and they showed who his real manager was and I said wait a minute. That's who is sitting next to that girl at the Cotton bowl and I've watched Now, I've watched it really close to how they. It was a whole group of people that apparently knew Gino. And so when Gino is. Is shaved, he runs out to this girl in the crowd, first thing to cover his head. But we got to see him for two seconds, and it was, you know, just such a payoff. But that. I always thought that was funny that I was able to spot that that was his real, real manager and this girl that he ran over to, of course, that was. [01:12:57] Speaker B: How did people. How did people receive Missy? [01:13:01] Speaker A: Oh, just immediately, everybody. [01:13:03] Speaker B: Boys, all in heaven looking. [01:13:05] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, and. And my parents weren't. Weren't watching, but would take me maybe to the big shows. And, you know, if. If my parents were still alive. And I promise you, my mom would say, how are house tennis racket for Cornet? And what's upper crust? That's how they're nicknames for Missy. And. Yeah, and Cornet. And Cornet was hardly here. And, you know, Sunshine just. I mean, I'm sorry. Missy just immediately, you know, she's bouncing around and, you know, it got everybody's attention, and she's immediately, you know, they knew to put the camera on her ringside and see how she was doing. They had learned. And then she goes into her feud with. With Sunshine. Never really a tits and ass kind of. Pardon me, but, you know, show. Sunshine was never, never that way. She wore some hot pants in early 83, but even have their mud match in 86 at Texas Stadium that wasn't filmed, that they weren't wearing. Anything revealing, nothing, you know, was never put that way. I don't know if channel 39, you know, would have frowned on it because that was a, you know, big Christian broadcasting network that they were on. [01:14:12] Speaker B: Fritz might have frowned on it. I mean, yeah, very. He was very spiritual at that particular time. [01:14:18] Speaker A: Absolutely. So they did do a mud match, though. And, you know, I have mud on my program, and I have great pictures of that. Missy put out a picture just today or yesterday, and she said, I have a. Have a video of just a few seconds of the mud match. Well, it's my picture that somebody used the AI Tool that you can use now. And, you know, because George Napolitano and I were both taking the best pictures there. And, you know, George, you know, pictures where I'm behind George of George taking great pictures. I've been so fortunate to meet George through the years after standing behind him on the front row and now see him at show, and he's kind of giving me a Good backing of saying, you know, Lance Peterson really knows his history. And I appreciate that. [01:15:02] Speaker B: Before we go any further, I just want to tell everybody out there listening that that, that that film you think you're watching, that is Lance Peterson's still photograph that someone has used AI and that little tool was cool there for a couple of weeks. But I'm sort of getting tired of all the photos now. [01:15:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I did a few of the cartoon ones. I took some of my pictures and tried to make cartoons and see how good it worked. But, you know, I do love those pictures. My Brody pictures are my. Really proud of the ones I took at Cotton Bowl 86 and I might do something with those at the state fair of the 40th year. And I've been hinting it had a little plan for some an entry that out out there at the. At the state fair. I actually went this year to get all the info on how to do something. So I might do a little display. [01:15:53] Speaker B: Anything we help promote, just let us know. [01:15:56] Speaker A: I appreciate it. I'm looking forward to that. Those are when I took the. This is. Was an 86 Cotton bowl that I'm talking about where he came down the aisle after a. I've got the cage match pictures, but he came down, back down the aisle while Fritz and Abdul and Gary Hart were still doing something in a ring. And he stopped. And I'm just taking these pictures going, you know, and I really felt like I'm taking these pictures of the star at that point in 86, I had taken pictures of Freebirds, Von Erich's Everything, but here it is is. I've got Brody right here. And you know, I, I just love those pictures and, and they're all over my Twitter. I retweet them all the time. And you know, I've got a lot of reruns. The other day I found some new film, but it didn't come out that hot. And we, we ran it through an AI Google thing and they, they were okay, nothing, nothing spectacular. But you know, at 86, I just was at. I saw everything in 86. That Texas Stadium and a huge UW NWA show on in July. That came the first time they came to Dallas. Road Warriors. All that and Dusty and Flair and all those guys. It just, it just couldn't have been any better. [01:17:00] Speaker B: Well, I, I was always really proud of Missy because, I mean, she started out as a fan in Tallahassee and then, you know, wanted to be in the business. And this is really. This is our first run, isn't it? In world class. [01:17:14] Speaker A: Absolutely. [01:17:14] Speaker B: Our first major deal here year. [01:17:16] Speaker A: How can they hit such home runs? With Sunshine, Precious and Missy. It's just unbelievable. You know, Sunshine just learned about the business driving here with, with Jimmy Garvin in the car because like she was pregnant, I believe at the time. And they came and a funny story is they. While Garvin was here, Gary Hart had left for Mid Atlantic. So Garvin is renting Gary Hart's house. [01:17:42] Speaker B: House. [01:17:42] Speaker A: So Jay. So James Williams. Jimmy Garvin is, is renting from the Williams. So Gary Hart's real name is Williams. What is his first name? I can't think of it right now. Is it Gary? Gary Williams? Yeah, Gary Williams. So the Williams were renting to the Williams. It's kind of funny. And we've, we've verified that with Chad Hart who said that's my house, you know, a few years ago online. He is very nice. I haven't talked to them in a while, but, you know, very, very cool that we, we just get those little pieces of information now that Cotton bowl show also, besides, you know, getting the, the, the hair and all that was that, you know, Lance Von Erich's debut. And a lot of people think a lot of things about Lance Von Erich. He was not known in this area. Please. We knew the magazines with him facing flair in Pacific Northwest. Those came out about the same time as this. But he wasn't a known athlete. I mean, people knew who, let's say Larry Johnson, the basketball player. People knew who he was in, in high school school and that he'd gone on to unlv. But you get the story that he was known around town. It's not true. I really like Vinnie's book that he did on Lance Von Eric helped put the timeline that how long they had worked on it. There's a few questions I have that I'm not sure about because I think they tried to. I think Ken Mantel tried to bring him back in in 88. They deny it, but Lance is in the program and Mark Lorenz mentions it on TV in 88 several times that Lance is coming back. But it never happens. In fact, I think believe them, the magazines got wind of it when they did the Iceman carry a carry match where the lights went out and the magazines had it that it was Lance that turned the lights off. And I think they were going that direction. Well, you know, how did they. You know, there was something said and something was going on. But Lance and, and Vinny ass Lance, he said, no, I was already gone. From there there. But whatever. I think he was a, he was definitely a Ken Mantel guy because Ken Mantel had used him in Wild west and then was back in world class in 88. And I know I'm jumping year to year, but you know, I gotta throw it all out there for everybody. [01:19:49] Speaker B: Tell the, tell the story. That's fine. [01:19:51] Speaker A: You know, so we're jumping into the, the Thanksgiving at Reunion Arena. So normal Thanksgiving, Reunion Arena. Just, you know, tremendous years of age. 83, 84 and then 85. Actually. 83 was such a peak Thanksgiving with Carrie and Michael Hayes in the cage. And it's, you know, I talk about that show non stop. I just. There was everything to me, my peak. So I peaked at 14. Nothing's ever been the same. It's almost like that. But this one was a little lackluster because we were going Kevin, Gino and Chris versus Kevin and Carrie again in a cave. The main thing is trying to get their mask off. And they do get the mask off them, but they've already grown crew cuts back. There was nothing to this. They put Terry Gordy and Brian Adias, Brian Diaz subbing for Tony Atlas as referees. And they try to do something where Terry Gordy's acting like Michael Hayes in that big. In the big cage door match. And finally he leaves. He's a non factor. Geno and Chris do win the match and win the tag team belts. Get out of there. But, but the Von Erics had taken the mask off, which didn't mean anything because they weren't bald. They, they had their hair and you really never saw them without. And if you didn't see the Cotton bowl when they shaved them, you didn't see them bald. I mean, Buddy Roberts back in 83 wrestled several matches without the headgear. Eventually, you know, he did. Then he puts it back on when he's growing his hair back. It's what's funny. And he takes it off finally. The last time you see that headgear was at, at Christmas. And I know everybody remembers that headgear because that was forever. That was a big deal here. [01:21:28] Speaker B: Well, it was a, it was a heat getting device, you know, because yeah, thought that he shouldn't be wearing that, you know, and he wasn't getting his head knocked around because he was wearing the headgear. [01:21:38] Speaker A: So at this point, by the way, the One Man Gang is kind of a tweener. He's never a full fledged baby face, but he's doing this. The show in San Antonio that the Texas All Star that Gary Hart's booking and where Gary Hart is managing Bruiser Brody down there. And, and, and One Man Gang is the baby face. And so Brody comes on the Channel 11 show in Fort Worth and says, now I know that y' all seen, you know, me associate with Gary Hart. Let me tell you, it's just about the money, and that's why I'm doing it. And so he actually had to address it right there because we were getting that tv and so he addressed it. So at this Thanksgiving, to me, I. [01:22:19] Speaker B: Love that because that, that's being attention to detail. [01:22:21] Speaker A: I liked it a lot. I really. I always remember that I put it on Twitter a lot about that. He came on there and did that. Whenever anybody mentions Texas All Star, Kamala came in for. See Kamala in for a big show. He fought the One man gang on that. And then One Man Gang beat Gary Hart. Gary Hart and him had had a falling out. So One Man Gang got to beat up Gary Hart. During this time, you know, we, we haven't mentioned Brian Adidas very much, but Brian Diaz kind of the, the, the friend of the Von Erichs, he's getting a little bit of a run with the Texas title. He'll trade that with Gino, then trade it with the grappler. But they had already done a lot of damage to Brian Adias as far as several weeks in a row during 85, he'll get. Either he hurt. He can't finish a match because he's hurt, quote in quotes, or he gets pinned and he, you know, he, they. They didn't do him a. He wasn't ready for that run in 87 as much as now. I appreciate, I see how hard he worked, but it wasn't going to happen because to a great point, because we just didn't have faith. We'd seen him all these years and we'd seen him getting torn up, you know, losing. And so it was never going to hit hot for Brian at Diaz. It was really set up for Mike. Mike did return. Um, let's see. I'm sorry, that's 86. Let me, let me slow down a minute. At the Thanksgiving, at this cotton ball show with the hair match, they did bring Mike out in a, In a Porsche, sitting on the back of a Porsche up on the, on the back seat with Kevin and Carrie. And Lance is in the front seat with a driver, and they circle him around the, the. The stadium waving at everybody. And some people can question that, but we wanted to see Mike. Mike, that's, That's Something right there. We wanted to see Mike there way he's part of it. We want to see him doing great and he's there and I don't see any problem with it. That was at the very beginning of the show. They do not show that on channel 39, but they do show an interview on one of the episodes and he's very thin, his arms look horrible from all the IVs. And that's also Lance's first interview also. And, but we wanted to see him, you know, he's doing great. They wanted us to, to, to always be part of it in certain ways. They invited, they wanted fans at David's funeral in 84 and they did. They, they had that funeral and they did try to show that a little bit in the movie. They do a pan out as if it was on a drone going up and doing the people out there. But unless you see the, the TV interview, the, everything from that, you don't, you can't get a feel for it. [01:25:02] Speaker B: So did you guys know at the time that Mike was still that sick before you saw him come out? [01:25:09] Speaker A: He was this. He had made the turn. So he's, he's out of the hospital and. But he's just thin, you know. No, we knew he had been. It was bad. You know, they always pushed the fact of this fever being whatever 108 or something, you know, crazy. [01:25:26] Speaker B: But you know, after September were they giving you updates on the show on a regular basis? [01:25:33] Speaker A: Oh yeah, yeah. You know, yeah, Mike's doing better this and that. You know, kind of not like Carrie now when Carrie had his accident. Carrie was going to be back anytime. That's a whole another story. And I, I love to go through that timeline sometime with you as, as far as, as, as Carrie and the, the amputation because anybody watch the iron claw? They sure shove that together. It looks like he lost his foot the second after he, he won the title. And that's, that's not true. You know that he really didn't lose the, the foot for several months. He tried to make it, it just wouldn't heal. Has that match with Brian at Diaz. But even before that the, the Christmas 86 is where the problem. [01:26:15] Speaker B: Did you feel that they were ending 85 on an upswing? Like were they, they ending the year hot? [01:26:23] Speaker A: No, I saw that they were changing to, to world class World Class Wrestling Association. I could see the changes. Flair did have his final match in October with a world class against Lance Von Erich. And once we saw that the Thanksgiving, Christmas didn't have Flair on it. You knew that the times had changed and then they'll announce that February of 86 is when they'll announce the split. [01:26:50] Speaker B: So the fans were, were the fans on a downer because they were leaving the National Wrestling alliance then? [01:26:58] Speaker A: No. [01:26:59] Speaker B: Or was it just that Flair wasn't going to be there? [01:27:01] Speaker A: You know, I, I, I think, you know, we, we really held that NWA title up there. You know, it was the top and you're not going to have them going for that. And, and we're gonna, and we're gonna. [01:27:13] Speaker B: I mean you've had the whole, you're gonna, you had the whole Fritz and Flair argument on television, you know, everything great. [01:27:20] Speaker A: And you're gonna give a. Rick Rude is going to be our new world champion and he's going to be on TV every week. He's not going to at all. [01:27:29] Speaker B: And so Rick Rude was not as established at that time as he would later be. You know, still fairly new. [01:27:36] Speaker A: Rick Rude came in and was not the wrestler he left it. He came in a couple of months, you know, end of October, November, December. The Free Birds also then come in for the beginning of 86 and he's tags a little bit with Michael Hayes and he ups his game game right there. That's where it is. I believe him working with the Free birds for that six month, first six months of 86 is when he really came into his own. I really do. And left, you know, much, much more quality. [01:28:09] Speaker B: Yeah. Because a lot of the 1985, the freebirds are in the AWA and in Tennessee. [01:28:16] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. They just come back at Christmas. That we'll get to in a, right here in a second. They come back for Christmas. They should have probably held him off, but I think they were scared that what they did is. Let's get into it real quick. The Christmas night they had Kevin and Carrie versus Chris and Gino again. The Von Erichs had pulled a fast one and Gino and Chris had signed against the Cosmic Cowboys. And they come out in the mask. [01:28:42] Speaker B: Somebody just asked me that question the other day because I posted the Christmas advertisement for that. And they're like, who's the Cosmic Cowboys? I'm like, well, they turned, turned out to be the Von Erics and, and. [01:28:52] Speaker A: They, they do all these interviews leading up to that match saying, hey, we're not trying to fool anybody. We're just did this for, to fool Gino and Chris to get the match. And then they come out actually with the mask, but you barely catch it on tv. They pull them off before they even get in the ring, you know, goofing off. The. This time period is when world class changed from always being associated with all Japan and went with New Japan Japan. Now I wish that the magazines had covered more All Japan, New Japan, where I could have kept up with that. I'm not Mr. Japan as much as I, I try and you know, I always said I wanted to go over there and see it. Even though they came to Dallas and did a show a few years ago and I got to see all the greats. But, you know, I, I didn't always know exactly, except, you know, all Japan seems like they're wearing all Japan jackets here and there. And I, you know, I'm kind of. It's. If you don't keep up with it, how am I going to follow it in the 80s. But I mean, I know information. So they, they. They had signed or whatever with new. With New Japan. So Fujinami comes over and I have a. Had Fujinami sign my program in Wichita Falls a few years ago. You had. Who else came over? It was Fujinami. Oh, and Noki Anoki. So I got to see Anoki wrestle. You know, I was there because I'm at these shows that I talk about, not the Fort Worth ones, but at the Dallas and the stadium cotton bowls. I'm at all these. So I'm. I knocked a few of those off my bucket list to get in the sea wrestle. [01:30:17] Speaker B: I would have loved to have been in it Inoki's head in 1985 because 20 years before that, in 65, he made his first trip through Dallas and through the Texas Loops. And all for him to look and see what's going on now in 85, it was a completely different. [01:30:38] Speaker A: Different. Oh, absolutely. [01:30:40] Speaker B: The place was on fire compared to 65. [01:30:43] Speaker A: I did something a few years ago on Twitter, pretty nerdy. But this is. That's what I looked up. I wanted to see what was the longest period between somebody debuting at the Sportatorium to their last match at the Sportatorium. [01:30:56] Speaker B: Well, now, that's interesting. What did you learn? [01:30:59] Speaker A: Yeah, it was. The top ones were. I thought Mark Lewin was pretty close Tojo Yamamoto and Flirts and Moolah. Moolah, who'd wrestled before the Sportatorium fire in 53 had wrestled. And then in 53, when. When they're. They're wrestling at the. Our Fair park stockyards kind of deal where the state fair is all that summer they're building the Sportatorium back at Rapid Speed. She's headlining these shows here in Dallas and I, you know, and then come back to the Sportatorium and I have program from the second or third week back in the Sportatorium and they're dragging her up the aisle. She's on the front of my program, one of my favorite programs and stuff. And I know people have their different feelings on Moolah, but I love that program. I tell you. I feel really fortunate to have it. And you know, it shows. It also shows we're getting drugged through the concourse of the Sportorium and I'm like, man, that's right where I always stood taking all these pictures. There's also pictures of Elvis when he would play at the Sportorium right there, right by the phone booth. And I took pictures of my buddy right there at the phone booth. [01:32:05] Speaker B: That's cool. That's cool, man. [01:32:07] Speaker A: You know, I love that stuff. And you know, several times on, on Twitter I'll put the. At the same moment where I compare my picture to what the TV camera had or sometimes there's actually a photographer picture and they're all three, you know, my picture versus, you know, with all three angles of the same same moment. That's my favorite. But yeah, it was Tojo and Fritz and Moolah who had, had, you know, it had been around and Mark Lewin was up there at the top. I'll have to look at that tweet and re. Put it out. It wasn't perfect, but I, you know, it. If you're heavy into your wrestling. And I just came up with that. I was like, you know, I wonder, you know, what's the earliest the World Class memory site? Nope. No site is perfect with results. But that's a, you know, really good thing. Before that, you know, I would say I learned a lot of stuff from just looking at tape tape catalogs. I didn't order a lot of tapes at all and not back in the day, not anything. You know, do people talk about tape trading that I didn't. It wasn't a part of that really. But I would look at some of the catalogs that would come out. John McAdams, we talked about. He, he. I, I would look at his. And it kind of helped me, you know, get what I could. And this, you know, then wrestling, World Class memories and doing. Working on booking a territory over there. I've. I've gone through World Class so many times and I like to go backwards from, from the heyday to, you know, I always. All I ever cared about is wanting to see 81 with Kabuki's. Heyday and now I can see plenty of it. It's. I can't believe I thought, now I'm never going to get to see this. [01:33:35] Speaker B: And I go back never in the. [01:33:37] Speaker A: Wrestling business or, you know, I just picked up the other day, I told you on Twitter, I said, you know, I had an opportunity. I got the whole 1974 set of programs from Fort Worth. I'm like, here's my. Take my money, please. Because somebody sent it to me. I thought it was maybe one program. Then I looked and I said, that looks like maybe two. I got to get over there. Got got home, told my wife when we go over this place and I get over there and it's just this full package and I realize, holy cow. You know, Brody's debut. [01:34:07] Speaker B: Told you Twitter, it's a good thing you got there before me because 1974 is my absolute favorite year in wrestling. [01:34:15] Speaker A: A lot of things are put up, but that is still in there on right there next to where I sit, watch tv. I still have that whole set that I'm still chewing through. That's, that's me. I'm kind of known for my programs. Can I, you know, I, I like them. [01:34:29] Speaker B: I've got an alert set on your Twitter account so I can see things you tweet out. Because I'm looking for, I'm looking for all those 74s to hit Twitter. [01:34:39] Speaker A: Yeah, I need to do. I thought about doing that for the new year and putting something out every week. I've gotta, I gotta remember that I don't, I don't hit it as hard as I used to because I feel like I've put those, those reruns out there so much. But if you do go to my, my profile and hit the search under me and just put in 1983, 1984, put in reunion arena and it'll come up with some really great, great, you know, stuff. I. Really proud of my, my tweets, folks. [01:35:05] Speaker B: If you guys don't follow Lance and you're not connected with them, you need to get there. Especially if you're a Texas wrestling person and especially if you're a world class or Dallas, Dallas territory guy. [01:35:18] Speaker A: So it's, it's Lance Peterson at SMU heavyweight. I did go to SMU in Dallas and I don't know if you notice, I did go to school with, I did graduate with the Harley Ray Race's son. And I did not know that till about three weeks before we graduated. I had had classes with him. I had, he torn me up in racquetball intramurals and went to a luncheon right before he graduated with him and his mother. Oh, it was a. It was a yearbook photo that came out, a yearbook story on him and who he was. And somebody brought it to me and I go, are you kidding me? This Harley Grace, you know, seven time world champion. I mean, I'm just thinking, you know, he's the top at the time, you know, it was unbelievable. And here it is. This is his son. So we went to this luncheon and, and the next day and I met his mother. I still was kind of like, mom. I was with my mom. And I said, don't, let's not mention wrestling. You know, whatever. And so the two days later, we had the big graduation and I go around the front looking for my parents, and I run into Harley racing this. This his ex wife at the time. And she's like, this is Justin's dad. And I want to say, of course, give me a break. But I say, shook his hand. I said, hey, champ. He put out his cigarette and I said, hey, champ. And I told that story for years, that here it is. I graduated smu. My dad had come from nothing to build a life where you could pay, you know, me to go to smu. And it was just fantastic. And here I am, the biggest day of my dad's life, me graduating. And all I think about is the day I met Harley Ray. And I've told Justin that story now because he didn't really come out publicly until they had done those stories last year. And now he's. He's around a lot, but he took a picture with his dad right there in front of. Of what's where the SMU plays basketball, where he just had graduation. And I. And I just met him two seconds before that. I'm like, I didn't know you had a camera. You're taking my picture, Harley Race. [01:37:11] Speaker B: The Harley Race Wrestling Academy is just 70 miles or so away from where I lived in Columbia when I lived there. [01:37:18] Speaker A: And that was two days before the slamboree where I think Bulldog fought Vader. [01:37:23] Speaker B: Yeah. 93. [01:37:24] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't pull up those old dates unless it's world class. I don't pull up the old dates even though I was glued to everything wrestling growing up. But I do know I've looked up when that was, that I. That I met him. [01:37:37] Speaker B: How do we wrap up 85 here, Lance? [01:37:40] Speaker A: Well, the birds were kind of. So if you look at world class, you could look at 82. The. The Channel 39 show as its own year of oh, everything's great. Von Erics are beating Wild Bill Irwin, Frank Duick. You know, everything's wonderful. We're. We're going duck hunting with the Von Erichs. And then all of a sudden, sudden it's NWO ish, if you will. The furry birds have come in and all hell's broken loose. Right. They're. They're bad. They're punks and we're the good guys and everything's great. You get to Texas State. So you got that first year. Then a year and a half to get to Texas Stadium with Kerry winning the belt. And that was the free birth Von Erich feud. The heyday went a little longer than that. Then it turns to Gino and Chris for a year and a half to this Cotton Bowl. And now you might say a lot of people do. That's the end of the heyday was that match. It makes a lot of sense. Sense. But the Free Birds came back in at the beginning of 86. So you had the old time for six months before they go to UWF. You had the old school feel. Gino had been in so long that I think he needed a break a really bad. When he passed away. I don't think you can overstate how much of a Devastation that in 86 of the fan base when Gino left. Gino had a fans. And we love Gino. I mean, and they say behind backstage they love Gino just. Just great. And you can see he's like a soldier for the company. Him, kabuki. You know, guys that look like they did everything they were supposed to do for the company. Selfless. So the Freebirds are in. Geno passes away. And I think it took a lot of people away. But then it was still a crowd at the 86 Texas Stadium. But because the Free Birds were in, I think it kind of swept it on the carpet. I don't. I don't have a lot of faith for Geno Chris Feud. I really don't. I think that they should have split on Thanksgiving and had their first match on Christmas at Reunion. And it would have helped. Instead they had their first match on at the Fort Worth show in the beginning of 86. And that's the blinding angle. And I just don't have a lot of faith in that. I think that somehow Chris should have gotten back with Gary Hart. And if there was anywhere to travel at the time, he should have traveled. Chris is a heel fantastic. Chris always reaching for the brass ring to be the number one guy if he knew he couldn't be the number one guy with Devon Erics around. But he wanted to be and he worked so hard and he should have tried to do more away from Dallas, but then again the areas were cut were going. The, the territories you were cutting down. So even though it seems like with the free birds coming in, it was nice for six months and then everything hits wrong with everybody. The, you know, everybody leaves. Which was okay, we needed a few of those guys gone anyways. Needs to be. Needed a break. But Carrie, Carrie, you know, good grief. Carrie is out of action come June and whoa, there's the heart and soul of the whole thing is carries hurt. He's going to come back here and there every few. Know, every few episodes. You know, Carrie's doing well. He's going to be back. He's going to be back. He's going to be back. And you know, it was, it was forever before he could come back. But he did. And they just had the anniversary. A lot of people put it out there with the match in December of 88 with Sid and Carrie. And it's a horrible match to watch, but Carrie was better than that. He really could spin on that foot. And I think he was better before that match. He was better in wwf. But if you watch that Sid Carey match that's on this on YouTube, it's. It's just nothing. I, I don't know if it was whose fault it was. It's just, it's not good. Kerry was very active with that foot. I saw him. He would jump off the ring apron backwards down to the floor. And if you, if you see that picture of me sitting on the front row of the Sportsworm, you know, he was right here a foot from me all the time. And when he would walk on that wooden floor, it sounded like he had a brace in his foot. I could hear the metal hitting what I thought was metal, what I thought was a brace around his foot. But none of us knew. We did get word that that something had happened. It came off in Nevada, but, you know, I think people, we just pushed it under, under the carpet. We didn't believe it. We just thought his foot was fused. That was the word, that his foot was fused and that, you know, there's no problem. He obviously wasn't the same guy. He was because, you know, he could, he was much faster and could go down, do certain Von Eric moves that you didn't see anymore, more brawling. [01:42:20] Speaker B: That's the thing about pro wrestling, you know, because where's where's the work begin in the reality. Reality end. You know, it's hard sometimes to figure that stuff out. And I think all wrestling fans are a little cynical because we're used to being worked. And so you're like, oh, I don't know if he's probably fine. They're just working the angle or, you know, I mean, and especially if the Von Erichs, like, you grew up and they're your idols and heroes, you want it to turn out that way. He's like, I want him to be. [01:42:52] Speaker A: Oh, of course. [01:42:54] Speaker B: So I can. I can understand that. [01:42:56] Speaker A: Yeah. They had such a. Such a problem with the heels drying up in the area. And, you know, they were throwing different things at the. Hart was doing a lot of booking in there. And, you know, I give Hart a lot of credit for a lot of things before World class, and then I see him get credit for things that he didn't. He wasn't around for. In world class, but he was. He was down. I don't think it was his fault, but he was down to like, maybe those old crumbs. Tony's in 87 trying to bring those guys in. Bringing the spoiler in, bringing Mark Lewin in. You still pushing Killer Tim Brooks, who was not that much older, but still looked way older. Boy Killer Tim Brooks. What a career. He was all over the place and at his hands and everything. [01:43:40] Speaker B: Sure was Dick Murdoch's cousin. [01:43:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And then their uncles were. I have a picture on on my Twitter with their uncles who. Who wrestled. And in one of them did an interview that's on. There's a Jones film library that has a few wrestling news news spots that they did through the years. And have the farmer burns and have. There's one with Andre in the Sportatorium. And you're not going to find footage of the Sportatorium. And at that time, they weren't filming a show. And it's Andre. They're doing it all about Andre. But it was during the time when J.J. dillon was in. In managing the Mongolian Stopper. And that's a. That's a really good piece where you get to see. Get to see a little bit of the sport touring because, you know, really all that time it was the Channel 11 show, as I said. They introduce you to the von Ericsson. 82. We go through 83, 84, 85, and then 86. You get a little bit of that Free Bird magic again. And then like, everybody goes to UW wf and it's Kevin with Carry Out. It's Kevin and Brody that are. It's on their backs. They are the, the only stars. Everything else is a drop off from there. You know, Kevin's got Brian Adidas he's feuding with. I think that Brian was. Wanted to go be one of the new fabulous ones and that instead they, they told him, you know he could turn. You know this feud with Mike that was in late 866 he was going into a feud with, with Mike and you know, Mike got a three second win over him and they did different things and then. But of course Mike passed away and they, they changed it over to Kevin again and Mike, Kevin and Adidas, you know. And Carrie got to come back at the end of 80 of 87 the freebirds came back together. Michael Hayes back in. In 88 which was. It was strange. Michael Hayes had just had that really nice house show run at the beginning of 80:88 with flair. So it was kind of surprising he came back. But I always say it's because he thought Carrie was back and that the good old days would return. They had booked Texas Stadium 88 again. But once you get to that and, and the crowds were good at the Sportatorium. If you watch the beginning 1988, things are back this magic and you get to Texas stadium May of 88 and they didn't sell ringside tickets that it's. It's more like one of those shows was Shea Stadium where the, the ring is way out there and we're all in the crowd and there's no floor seats type of deal. And it's like oh, this is not good. But that was an ego. You know, they could, they wanted to do Texas Stadium. You know, how could you stop running Texas Stadium? They. It was the history of it and people question that all the time. And I think, you know what they, they got it the, the sport. The stadium was booked at a time of year when, when are they going to. They're not to used using it. There's not any lighting that's needed. There's no fanfare. You know, they, especially if they don't have a crowd on the floor. They don't need security down. They don't put any boards down for the chairs or anything like that. But you know, they kept running Texas Stadium too, too long and it's, you know, people are. It's embarrassing when I show my pictures and where's the crowd? Well, you know, that's the way it was. Yeah, but, but you know, I'm glad to come back anytime, you know Tony and discuss Anything you want to go through, I, you know, just, I got a mouthful. [01:47:06] Speaker B: I'd love to do that, Lance. And we're going to have you back for sure. And I really appreciate you spending the time and taking us through a world class of 1985. I mean I learned some things and you brought back some memories that I'd forgotten. And I really appreciate you sharing what has obviously been a long lifetime passion of the yours. And that's why I wanted you to be on today is because I could tell by interacting with you and looking at the stuff that you put out, I'm like, this is my guy. I want to have this guy on to do world class. So thank you. It was a great retrospective and this won't be your last time here. [01:47:47] Speaker A: Oh, thank you. It was a pleasure. You do such great interviews. You know, in your work on Twitter. It's just. I'm not going to call it Twitter forever. I'm sorry. [01:47:57] Speaker B: I don't even know what to call it. We're not, not xing. We're tweeting. [01:48:00] Speaker A: Yeah. But please, everyone, if you want to check out my, my, my account, it's the at SMU heavyweight and I've put a lot of time into it. And 99 of the pictures are mine. There's a few from the friends but usually I, I was right there. Just fortunate to get really good seats early on. Now the years I was sitting front row at the Sportatorium, I didn't take a camera at all. I got down there and I times just glued to it. So I was there for all the Carrie Lawler stuff, all of Cactus Jack, all of that Jeff, Jared, everything. I'm right there. And you know, never took a camera. [01:48:37] Speaker B: As we proceed through the timeline, we will check in with you from time to time and have you come back. And we really appreciate you being on today, man. [01:48:45] Speaker A: Thank you so much. [01:48:47] Speaker B: All right, Lance Peterson, everybody. I will see you in just a second here on the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel. Wow. Does Lance Peterson know his stuff or what? I encourage you to follow him on X. He has some great history posts about world class championship wrestling and about wrestling in Dallas going back years and years and years. And I'm so glad that Lance is a part of our family here. He's the latest and newest member. We're adding all kinds of people to the family and to the community here at the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel. And it's a good time to tell you that the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel history show is brought to you by me, Tony Richards, the Curator and by all the great members that's you of our Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel community. Let me tell you about all the places to get great territory wrestling history from us. You can come join our Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel Facebook Group. Each one of these places in our community are so different. The Mirror members enjoy so many different things on Facebook. 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That's my biggest community with almost 19,000 followers at Tony Richards 4 on the X platform and I post there no less than four or five times a day and sometimes up to 15 or 20 times times going back in time and posting great cards that took place in pro wrestling history. Sub stack is the hub where it all happens. Just come on over there and search for Tony Richards 4 or the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel. I publish a wrestling history newsletter called the Daily Chronicle every single day and if you subscribe to that, it's absolutely free. We deliver a lot of value. I had some great pieces in the Daily Chronicle this week. The life and career of Bobo Brazil. The life and career of Eddie Graham. We did a on this date analysis of the cards that happened on Monday that week in 1976, Jerry Lawler got his Southern title for the sixth time, defeating Ricky Gibson, who was the Southern heavyweight champion at the beginning of 1976. 6 We're following the NWA world title run of Terry Funk for that whole year. It's all in the Daily Chronicle and it's absolutely free. Now if you want to become a premium investor, it's a way that you can support the work that I do to preserve wrestling history. And we've got several premium investors. It's just $5 a month or if you want to save 10 bucks. You can subscribe for an annual subscription for $50. And my premium investors get a lot of analysis on the history of territory wrestling in a series called the Evolution of Pro Wrestling. We just reviewed the year of 1965. We're about to come out with the 1975 year in review. We published a piece that I wrote about the original British Bulldogs tag team not long ago that were in the Gulf coast wrestling territory in 1976. A whole lot of content coming there for just $5 a month as a premium investor. Coming up here on the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel History Show, I've got Tim Deals coming back. And we're going back to Tennessee in 1985 and look and see how Jerry Jarrett is fighting off the national expansion of the wwe. And he's cooperating with Jim Crockett Promotions. They bring the Great American Bash Tour to Memphis and Lexington, Kentucky. It's a great year in 1985. Even with boda the Witch Doctor, it's still a great year in 1985. And so we'll review what's going on that year in Tennessee and in Memphis wrestling. Thank you so much for joining today. If you like what we do here, become a member of one of our groups in the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel. Join our community and once you have hit the like button on our content, share it with your friends that you know that are pro wrestling history enthusiasts like you and like me. Until next week, here on the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel History Show, I'm your friend and your host and fellow wrestling history buff Tony Richards, reminding you that if you want better neighbors, neighbors be a better neighbor. Let's support each other where we can. What do you say? Thanks, everybody. Live from the Richards Ranch in Western Kentucky, so long from the Bluegrass State. [01:54:30] Speaker A: Thanks for tuning in to the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel podcast. Tune in for another great episode next week, interviewing wrestlers, referees and media personalities that have made the sport of professional wrestling great. We'll release a new episode soon. Don't you dare miss it.