Episode 29: The WWA in 1975 with guest Dave Dynasty

[00:00:02] Speaker A: Time for the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel podcast. We've got lots and lots of things to talk about and to do today, covering the territories from the 1940s to the 1990s. It's the best thing going today. Interviewing wrestlers, referees, authors, and other media personalities that have made the sport of professional wrestling great. The cream. Yeah, the cream of the crop. And now, here's your host, Tony Richards. [00:00:35] Speaker B: Hello again, everybody, and welcome to the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel Podcast. We are originating from the Richards Ranch in Western Kentucky. I'm your host, Tony Richards. So glad to be back with you again today and have you here with us. We got a great guest and a great show lined up for you on today's podcast. But before we get to that, I've got a lot of things to cover here, just some FYIs for you, because I know so many of you like all the things we do. So I want to let you know a little bit about some things going on here. Our audio version of our show is now on all the major platforms where you get your audio podcast. So check wherever you get yours, whether it's Apple Podcast or if it's all of them. I mean, there is a long list of platforms that we are now involved with that are distributing our show out to you. So you shouldn't have any trouble finding the audio version of our show. And we've got show number 28 on there, which was last week's show with the Q and A. And also I want to tell you, we may have episode 27 up by now, which is the hall of Fame episode with my great panel of experts that came on with me to talk about their particular favorites for the Wrestling observer hall of Fame. And so those 26 or 27 previous episodes covering 1975, we will get those up and out to you as we go here through the end of the year. Our producers are working on that. You can still see all of our shows, both audio and video, at our substack channel, Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel. And the video version is available on our YouTube channel, Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel on YouTube, so you can see all our shows there. Now, I hope you could catch my latest guest appearance on the Voices of Wrestling flagship Patreon podcast. I had a great time over there with Rich and Joe, and I think it was probably my best job. I did a better job of pitching Roy Welch and his case for the hall of Fame on the Voices of Wrestling show than I did my own show. But we had two hours of nothing just but me as the guest and I went through all seven of the people on my Wrestling observer ballot for non wrestler category. So that's a great show. Look it up. Voices of Wrestling on the flagship Patreon podcast. That would be the October 14th show also coming up tomorrow night, which this is Wednesday and we always release our show on Wednesday. Tomorrow night on Thursday, October 30, I'm going to be on the WFIA podcast show with several of my friends. I think George Shire is going to be there, I think Wes Maidment is going to be there, I think Terry Sullivan is going to be there and some people I haven't met before that I'm really looking forward to where we do the wrestling historians Hollywood Squares. And so I'm really, really looking forward to being on the WFIA show again. And I will give you details on where you can catch that once we get it out. And I'll be on next week's podcast here at the Time Tunnel. I'll tell you a little bit where you can find that or you can just search for WFIA podcast show Hollywood Squares. I've got an article on the substack that I released last week that details my thoughts about Roy Welch being worthy of being elected into the Wrestling observer hall of Fame. It's called Roy Welch, a true Pioneer and a Wise architect. And it goes from Roy's upbringing in Oklahoma to his training in Amarillo to Ohio to he has started working his way south from Ohio and he starts seeing and getting the idea after he's seen West Texas and after he's seen Ohio and he's seen how these guys are doing things, he starts to put together the first territory in this area that I'm coming to you from right now. And so it outlines all my thoughts about Roy Welch and you should check that out. Roy Welch, a true pioneer and a wise architect. I have another article that should be out by now that's advocating for George Scott to be elected into the Wrestling observer hall of Fame in the non wrestler category. And that article is called George a Master Booker of Transition. And George, of course the mastermind behind the transition of Jim Crockett Promotions from a tag team territory to a singles based territory. In 1973 he had an amazing run. He had to deal with the 1975 plane crash where he lost his two top heels. And so it's and then he also booked the first part of the national expansion with Vince McMahon and the WWF. He booked the first couple of WrestleManias. And so I cover all that. It's George Scott, a master booker of transition. My article on George and the reasons why he should be in the hall of Fame. I've been doing a salute to Territory Era television wrestling show commentators on my social media channels on X, formerly known as Twitter, on the Pro in the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel Facebook group. Every day in October, I've listed a Territory Era television wrestling show commentator. And so for the rest of the year, starting in November. So in November and December, I'm going to release a full length article on each One of those 31 television announcers in the Territory Era. And we're going to end up the year with a bang this year, folks. I mean, a couple of really special shows I'm working on. A special Thanksgiving spectacular show that I'm working on that's going to cover some of the Thanksgiving shows in 1975 with some of my special experts and guests. We're working on that. And I'm trying to fish up some deep research for another special series on the Stories with Briscoe and Bradshaw show that will be coming in November as well. So November and December. Look forward to those months as we wrap up the year. This year it's been a great year here in the Time Tunnel and it's all because of you and your support. You watch, you listen, you like, you subscribe, you share. Some of you even contribute to my work as a historian. And I want you to know, no matter what you do, even if you're just a member that just sort of lays back and doesn't participate, but you just enjoy what we do. Hey, if you signed up for just a membership in the Facebook group, I don't care as long as you're involved in the Time Tunnel. I appreciate you and I really, really thank you. Okay, today's show is going to be fantastic. Dave Dynasty is here at the Richards Ranch and we are going to cover the WWA from Indianapolis, Indiana, that territory in the year 1975. Now listen, I'm down near Paducah in the western part of Kentucky. This is where I grew up. I moved to Missouri for 32 years. I just moved back this summer. I talked about that on some of our shows previously. But and I'm about a year younger, I think I'm a year younger than Jim Cornette. And Cornette has talked about when he discovered the WWA from Indianapolis. Now he could see it because he's in Louisville and he could pick up one of the stations. I think he saw a repeat of the show like late at night or something and he started watching it. I'm 220 air miles southwest of Louisville in Paducah. So I didn't get any of those television shows because the signal wasn't strong enough from Indianapolis to reach all the way down here. And Goulas Welch had taken over Evansville, Indiana, so there wasn't really a southern Indiana town that was carrying it where I could see it. And they didn't run in southern Illinois, so I didn't get to see it from. From there. So I saw none of the WWA at the time, but now I get to relive it. And I've. I've watched a lot of the tape. I've read both the. The Bruiser book and the Wilbur Snyder book, so I'm pretty familiar with it now that I'm in my older years as a wrestling fan and a wrestling historian. And I couldn't think of anybody better than the host of the wrestling nostalgia podcast, Dave Dynasty, to come on and talk about the WWA in 1975. So let's go to that visit and conversation with Dave Dynasty right now. Hello again, everybody. Welcome to another Pro Wrestling TimeTunnel podcast. I'm your host, Tony Richards, and tonight, from the Richards ranch, I'm joined by the dynamic, wonderful Dave Dynasty from his show, Wrestling Nostalgia. Dave, welcome to the show, man. [00:10:08] Speaker A: Thank you, Tony. [00:10:09] Speaker B: Thank you. I can't wait to go talk about your favorite wrestler of all time who just happened to own half of the promotion we're going to talk about tonight. The wwa. [00:10:20] Speaker A: That's right. Yep. That and take the Bruiser. I'm ready. You always like to talk. [00:10:25] Speaker B: You were telling me off air, and I cut the conversation off because I wanted to save it for the show. But you grew up in. You grew up a Hoosier, man. [00:10:33] Speaker A: I did. Born and raised in Columbus, Indiana, which is pretty South Central, but it's. It's pretty cool. It's, you know, close to Indianapolis, close to Cincinnati, close to Louisville. It was. It was a good place because I. From there I could get, like. I got the Louisville feed of the Memphis tapes on our chat, you know, that from there we were close enough to Louisville, and then, of course, we got Bruiser. And then, you know, everything. It was national after that. But, yeah, grew up there. Born and raised for 40 years. That's right. Where I lived there before I moved. So the majority of my life. Yeah, Spitting. Indiana. [00:11:03] Speaker B: I moved back here to the Richard's ranch. Actually, the Richard's ranch is new. I just bought it, but I moved back here to the ranch next door to my mom and Dad's place to look after my mom. And it's only appropriate that a Kentucky boy and an Indiana boy would be on here together today. [00:11:22] Speaker A: That's right. That's right. I was only a few minutes from IU, maybe 30 minutes from IU. I grew up an IU fan. I. You. Basketball. Yeah. [00:11:30] Speaker B: So I grew up probably a few years older than you, but I grew up right in the heat of the Indiana. Kentucky. I was watching on television the day Bobby Knight slapped Joby hall in the back of the head, knocked his glasses off. And it was on. It was on after that. And what people didn't realize were they were really good friends. [00:11:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, it was. I remember. I mean, being an iu, iu basketball, there's, you know, certain. You want to beat Purdue all the time. Purdue and then. And then Kentucky, and, you know, it's like those are the teams you, no matter what, you wanted to get those wins. [00:12:05] Speaker B: I mean, those guys were great basketball coaches, but they were also great showmen. They were great. They were. They would have made great wrestling promoters because they knew how to get the fans stirred up, you know, and they definitely kept that rivalry going for years and years and years. [00:12:22] Speaker A: Yep, absolutely. [00:12:24] Speaker B: Columbus, Indiana, is just right there, close to the epicenter of where the WWA ran. Right. So Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Louisville, those are all. Those were all WWA towns. And then even Evansville was a WWE town until Dick and Wilbur stopped running it. [00:12:46] Speaker A: Yeah, and they. Well, they did come. They. And they did come to Columbus semi regularly there. We had a car dealership in Columbus, Bill Dunphy Chevrolet. And Bruiser must have. No, he must have known Bill Dunphy. They must have been friends, because Bruiser would come and do appearances almost every year like clockwork. He would come and appear on the car a lot. And then there would be a wrestling show with Bill Dunphy. So. And they. And they, you know, they did all the silly, try to slam moose, cholok type things, and as part of that. So, yeah, he came to Columbus pretty regularly, too. And there was a little town really close to India, to Columbus. Excuse me five minutes. [00:13:20] Speaker B: Where. [00:13:21] Speaker A: That's where my grandma was called Edinburgh. And they even every so often read shows at the end of high school. And I don't recall it, but that was my first wrestling show ever. Was my grandma taking me to a. A bruiser show at Edinburgh. I was too young to remember. [00:13:33] Speaker B: What year would that have been, Dave? [00:13:36] Speaker A: I don't know. Late. It would have been late 70. I was born in 75, so it probably would have been, I'm guessing 78, 79. When I was three or four. Yeah, is my guess. I don't. I don't know. [00:13:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:48] Speaker A: And, yeah, she took me. She was. She was an avid wrestler. She's the one that got me started watching wrestling. [00:13:53] Speaker B: Well, as I told you, when I talk with you about coming on today, I mean, I'm a big fan of your show, but tell me. And we talked a little bit about getting guests and all that before we went on, but tell me a little bit about how you decided to do a wrestling podcast. [00:14:11] Speaker A: Well, I actually have a wrestling background. I wrestled four, five, five, six years in. In central India. Just small stuff. But I did get out to Chicago a few times, things like that. But I wrestled. I started as a manager, ended up wrestling, and then had an injury to my neck, which still bothers me. I had. I've had two fused discs in my neck, which I have to have, you know, surgery on again, which kind of ended that. So then after that, I transitioned, and I actually, for a while, ran some shows in that. That part of the, you know, area. And then when that kind of, you know, when I got away from that, I kind of. I wanted to be involved. I still wanted to be part of. Of wrestling somehow. I wanted to have my toes in it. [00:14:51] Speaker B: Sure. [00:14:52] Speaker A: I was always. I was always a talker. Right. That's what I was known for. I. I wasn't. I wasn't a very good wrestler, but I could talk, I could get heat. I could make people mad because I could talk. And. And I liked talking. I like talking to people. I like hearing stories. So I developed this mindset of, okay, well, I'm gonna do this podcast. I want to do. It focused on Midwest wrestling. When I started, it was just, you know, Midwest wrestling thing. I want to have, you know, some of the legends. At that time, I was getting a lot of. Some of the young guys, too, that were in the area. And it's like, I want them on, tell their stories, document this historically. That's. [00:15:29] Speaker B: That's. [00:15:29] Speaker A: I thought, you know, some of the. The Legends, they're getting older. I want to have them on. I want to get to talk to them, hear them, tell their stories before it can't be done. And then early on, I. I tried to, you know, I plugged a lot of Midwest wrestling and a lot of wrestlers had a lot of young guys, which. Which was great. I loved it. Don't get me wrong. A lot of people I knew at that time just coming out of wrestling, but over time, that kind of phased out and it just became more that focus of, of preserving, you know, the wrestling history and it, it focuses a lot on the Midwest and when I can get guys from that, you know, that area. But it's not, it's not solely that, right? It's, it's now I'm more, it's in the name, right? It's wrestling nostalgia, right? It's, it's, it's that remembering the past, remembering what we loved about wrestling, guys we loved. And I, and I, my goal is to always get guys that don't often get to tell their stories. I, I love first time guests. I love getting guys that are first time guests and I've had, I've had a few and, and I love that because I want guys on to tell their story that people haven't heard and I want them, you know, I've had a lot of guys from the wwe, especially the late years WWA that don't get a lot of attention. [00:16:39] Speaker B: Oh, of course, yeah. [00:16:40] Speaker A: And people don't remember. Right. And I, you know, but they're great talents, right? The, the Doctor, Jerry Graham Juniors, the Chris Carters, the Great Wojos, all these guys are, they're great talents and they have great stories to tell. [00:16:51] Speaker B: I, I, yeah, I loved your show with Jerry Graham Jr. Oh yeah, very good. And I also, I, we went on that, I'd heard it one time before, but when the Great Wojo passed away and I wrote my article about him for my substack Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel, I went back and listened to your show. [00:17:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:15] Speaker B: And just wonderful and so thankful that you were able to have him on before we lost. [00:17:22] Speaker A: Me too. And yeah, Jerry's become a really good friend. I've had him on many times. He's had times where he's, he's called me, he's like, Dave, I got, I got something I got to talk about and I want to talk about. Can I come on your show? Like when the Dark side of the Ring about Jerry Grimm Senior came out. [00:17:37] Speaker B: Oh yeah, he, he won. [00:17:38] Speaker A: He called me like the next day and I want to come on and I want, I want to counter this a little bit. I want to tell some of the, the positives about Dr. And I was like, that's great, let's do it. [00:17:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:47] Speaker A: And, and there for a while me and him were doing an actual kind of a sub show within mine called Graham's Gallery where I had him on to talk specific. You know, a lot of people don't know Jerry, Jerry had a TV taping with the wwf where he managed John Stud and, and a couple other people. It didn't work out. And we, we talk about that and talk about lots of things. [00:18:07] Speaker B: You, you mean he, he had it in the expansion years in the 80s. [00:18:11] Speaker A: It was about. Yeah, I think it was O84. Yeah, I, I think, I think it was just slightly pre. Estimated I can't, I have to go. It was one taping and I, I didn't realize. [00:18:22] Speaker B: That's interesting. [00:18:23] Speaker A: He did. And they gave him a different name, like Mag. Mad Dog Magin offer. I can't remember the exact name. They gave him a different name. Oh, they, and, and they gave him some instructions of, oh, don't, don't talk over your guys. So he, it was difficult for him. I still say Dr. Jerry Graham Jr. Should have had more opportunities because he is a very intelligent man. He is an unbelievable talker. He has a great mind for the business and understands it. So, you know, Jerry and I became friends and through Jerry, because Jerry's close friends with wojo. [00:18:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:53] Speaker A: And that's how I, I got in touch with. I, I, I, I pestered Jerry about wojo and he was always, I don't know. Wojo's. He keeps to himself. He doesn't do a lot. I'm like, Jerry, just, just ask him. If he says no, he says no. And I don't know what Jerry did. Jerry, I apparently put in a good word because next thing I know, Jerry's saying, well, Wojo says if, if I'm good with, you know, if you're good with me. He's good. [00:19:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:21] Speaker A: So I got his number and then I got, I got to talk to ojo. We set it up. It was, it was fun because WOJO is completely, was completely technology ignorant. He had no idea. He didn't understand Zoom. He didn't understand any of that. We, I did a, a wwa, kind of a roundtable type thing with like five or six guys, and Wojo was supposed to be a part of that. For the life of us, we couldn't get WOJO on. He was trying to come on. I was trying to. So he had no clue. So I'm so thankful we got it to work out and I got to talk to him. He, I mean, he was a great, he was great to talk to. Right. He, he doesn't, he's not done. I, I don't know if he's done any other podcast. Maybe he has. Maybe with the amateur. [00:20:01] Speaker B: I couldn't find him out there. [00:20:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't think I, I don't think he's done especially. We just talked about his program. [00:20:08] Speaker B: Such an impressive fellow with all the way he taught school and helped kids and had the wrestling programs in the high school and college. [00:20:17] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, had that amateur background. Should have been an Olympian or was an Olympian, but we, you know, boycotted the game. So should have been there was just great. Was a great amateur wrestler. Carried that over into, into the pros. He should have again, another guy probably should have gotten more opportunities. But you know, it is what it is. It's. It was that time. But Wojo's again, one of those talents maybe not everybody's familiar with and they should be. Yeah, he, he deserves more attention. So that's why, you know, that's the kind of guy I like to talk to. [00:20:51] Speaker B: And Jerry Graham Jr. You know, definitely. It just sort of reminds me some of the podcast had gorgeous George Jr. On before he passed away. And that was wonderful too because he was another performer that was, you know, I mean, he was a mid to upper card guy in the 70s that, you know, the 70s. And that's one of the reasons I focus on it somewhat is because it's an overlooked decade that really, really had a lot of great wrestling in it. [00:21:23] Speaker A: And so, and I'm sorry. And, and I mean the WWE in the 70s because most people remember the WWA for the 80s, of course, because that's where most of the film footage is. There's, there's more episodes. And when you look at it, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's more, it's meek. Right. The attendance is not where it was. There are some periods of where they use copycat talents and things like they're right to me. I, I find the highlights, I find the good stuff. And, and so there's still things there, but that's what most people know it for. [00:21:57] Speaker B: And all the guys, all the guys are a lot older. [00:22:00] Speaker A: They are. And they were still using those guys. Yeah, but again, people say that. People laugh at that. I'm telling you, being from Indiana, everybody in the state of Indiana knows who Dick the Bruiser is. Everybody in the state of Indiana has it. My dad did not like wrestling. He hated wrestling. Me and him would argue about wrestling, but yet my dad went to Professional Wrestling Cards in Columbus, Indiana because he wanted to see Dick the Bruiser. My dad has a Dick the Bruiser story because my dad was a police officer about pulling Dick the Bruiser over in Columbus, speeding and Bruiser Pretty much talking him out of a speeding ticket by showing him the championship belt in his trunk and talking to him. And my dad let it. So even my dad, who swore he hated wrestling, liked Dick the Bruiser. He was one of those guys said, oh, this is all fake. But that Dick the Bruiser guy, he's a badass. [00:22:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:53] Speaker A: You know, he'll kick your tail and. And everybody in Indiana is like that. [00:22:57] Speaker B: I there, Larry Matazik used to tell a story all the time about. He was at a press Club in St. Louis with Sam Mushnick. And that guys would say, oh, my son or my daughter likes your show. They watch your wrestling all the time, and they really like it and all that. And then he'd talk to him a little while longer. He goes, you know, we really were surprised that Bulldog Bob Brown gave Jack Briscoe such a great match last week. And Sam would lean over to Larry and go, closet fan. [00:23:30] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, that again, with Bruiser using those guys into those years, were they the greatest, you know, at that time? Were they past. Yeah, they're past the prime. But people still came. Yeah, to see Dick the Bruiser. People still came to see Bobo Brazil again. [00:23:47] Speaker B: It's one of those things where you're the owner. This happens to bookers a lot, too. You know, you're. You're the owner and you got everything you own invested in this business. And it's hard not to put yourself on top and keep yourself there because you can count on yourself. [00:24:05] Speaker A: That's right. And, you know, you'll be like. [00:24:06] Speaker B: You still draw people and sell tickets and. Yes, it's. It's. It's tough. You know, it's hard now. [00:24:12] Speaker A: Now, I'm not. I'm not blind to the fact that, yeah, maybe Bruiser should have bumped himself down the card a little bit. He had some young talent that. That could have stood out a little more, but. And he didn't. You know, there was. He worked with Jerry Jarrett in 82. There was issues there because Bruiser made decisions, changed cards, put himself on top of. Put himself over Kamala when he wasn't supposed to in Fort Wayne. And Jerry said, that's it. I don't. [00:24:37] Speaker B: I'm not, you know, I'm not going. [00:24:37] Speaker A: To work with you anymore. So, yeah, Bruiser. Bruiser had that. Bruiser was a draw, but I don't think. Yeah, maybe Bruiser didn't grasp it. He could still be a draw and be in the mid card. [00:24:47] Speaker B: Not even his. Not even his own family. I mean, Spike Was a young up and comer, you know, a good looking guy and, and had a lot of potential and all. But he still didn't get past Dick. [00:24:59] Speaker A: Nope, nope, he didn't. I mean, you know, yeah, they had, they had Spike and Steve Regal as the young lions. A very, they were a very talented young team and had that potential. Right. To be. Because they were more modern. [00:25:12] Speaker B: Right. [00:25:12] Speaker A: And. And then you only had some other guys, right? Elvis Arrow for that time was a more modern style. He had a little bit of a lucha mix in there for the 80s, right. It's not crazy, but they, he, yeah, he wouldn't kind of step aside, back down, let these guys truly shine. Yeah, he has his faults, I remember. [00:25:30] Speaker B: Well, all people do. We tend to be more critical of people we think are famous or semi famous or whatever, but. [00:25:38] Speaker A: That's right. [00:25:38] Speaker B: I mean, they're still human beings, as you and I talked earlier. [00:25:42] Speaker A: And it's hard to argue, right? It's Bruiser's money, so it's hard to argue with what he's doing. I mean, it's his money. [00:25:47] Speaker B: I mean, he's the one that's risking it all. [00:25:50] Speaker A: That's right. [00:25:50] Speaker B: I saw El Bracero at. I can't remember the towns I saw him in, but I saw him in ICW because he came down and worked with Pafos a couple of times. [00:26:01] Speaker A: But he did. Yeah. [00:26:02] Speaker B: So good. [00:26:03] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, he did. He actually got around quite a bit. I just had him, I've had him on the show a couple times and he's a great guy. And yeah, he's worked, he's worked around a little bit, you know, and Dick. [00:26:16] Speaker B: The Bruiser we were talking about, I mean, he wasn't just. Everybody in Indiana knew who he was, but I mean, he was one of the top. I just had Herb Simmons on here a couple weeks ago. He was over in St. Louis and he was over in Chicago. I mean, you know, the shows they did, Coach promoted with vern in the 70s. I mean, he, he had the Midwest. I mean, even on shows he didn't own. I mean, he had, he had the market on the top spot. [00:26:46] Speaker A: Yeah. And, and people again, Bruger is one of those where a lot of people remember the late years, but they, they don't. You know, Bruiser started in the late 50s into the six. I mean, he was huge in Cal, you know, California, Louisiana. That's where, you know, he kind of split off the WWA when he won the title from the Destroyer in, in Los Angeles. Brought to Indiana, said, oh, I'M gonna be on the world, you know, I'm the champ. But, you know, I mean, Bruiser had a great run in, in New York before he got banned for a brawl. And, you know, Bruiser did spots in Memphis, in, in Alabama, down, down in that way. I mean, Bruiser was an attraction everywhere. And, and when, I mean, you know, he wrestled in Detroit for the Sheik when they weren't, you know, battling head to head, you know, he was, he was, you know, withdrawing in Detroit and yeah, he was, he was a draw. He. And he knew it. And, but, you know, it again, it's, it's that, that victim of the videotape days, right? A lot of these guys, that's what a lot of them are. There's, there's either no videotape of them because they were prior to the VCR days, or what this is captured is. They're, they're waning years. So that's what people get in their mind. [00:27:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:55] Speaker A: What they remember. [00:27:56] Speaker B: Well, you know, and Dick was more of a brawler, and as he, as he aged, he became more of one. I mean, if you go back and watch the Vern Ganya and Dick the Bruiser match from the 50s, it's on YouTube. But if you go back and watch that Kohler match, I mean, Dick is bumping his butt off. I mean, he, he's got a lot of speed, he's around the ring, he's agile, he's bumping hard. [00:28:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:28] Speaker B: I mean, he, that's the thing is if you don't have the video evidence, to your point about the video bias, if you don't have the video evidence, the only impression you have is what you do see. [00:28:39] Speaker A: That's right. [00:28:40] Speaker B: And by that time, a lot of the guys are in the tail end of their careers. And now recency bias takes over and you think, well, they've always been that way and they weren't. [00:28:48] Speaker A: That's right. Nope, Absolutely. That's what, you know. And again, it's, you know, a lot of people see Dick the Bruiser in his 50s or in, you know, almost 60, and doesn't bump, doesn't sell much. And that's what they think Dick the Bruiser was. And it's, it's, it's not true. That's just, that is just, you know, the late years that the Bruiser, you know, kind of cashing in or phoning it in, you know, that's not, that's not who he was most of his career. [00:29:12] Speaker B: You know, in 75, the year we're going to talk about today in 75, when they were running Indianapolis and, and sometimes I think in one month I saw they ran it three times in a month. They primarily ran once a month. Sometimes they run twice a month. But in I think May, we'll know when we get there, but they ran three times. It must have been almost a six week month or something. They ran the Indiana Convention and Exposition Center. Are you familiar with that building? [00:29:41] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. Yeah, the expo is on. It's on the state fairgrounds and it's. I believe it's the building now that the. Any Indian ice, Indianapolis ice. I'm not sure what they're. The hockey team plays. It's still there, but yeah, it's, it's. And then I believe that's the building they always advertise it was air conditioned. Right. Because it was the newer building. [00:29:59] Speaker B: Yeah. At that time. Sure. [00:30:00] Speaker A: Yeah, it was one of the newer buildings. But yeah, that's lots of events happened there, especially with the state fair. [00:30:05] Speaker B: I mean now nowadays people, when they think of Indianapolis, they think of Market Square Arena. But back in Those days, in 75, the Indiana Convention Expo center was the building they ran. And they consistently, I looked up their attendance in 75, they consistently. They had a couple of months where they drew 6 or 7,000, but they consistently drew 9 to 11,000 people in that building for most of 1975. So in 75, I mean, they still were pretty hot. And the other thing I noticed too for the Indianapolis cards is. [00:30:42] Speaker A: You know. [00:30:43] Speaker B: When you go back and you study wrestling history, you can see the 50s, it was pretty much a three match card. In the 60s it was pretty much a five match card. But in 1975 they were running nine to 11 matches on a card in Indianapolis. So that means they're running 22 to 25 guys on a show in Indianapolis. I mean that was what. You wouldn't see that until you got into the Starcades and Wrestlemanias. You know, Graham started doing that in Florida in the late 70s. But I mean Bruiser really has what people nowadays would call a loaded show. They would pretty much be running that monthly in Indianapolis. [00:31:31] Speaker A: They were in, in. Bruiser is a little unique, right, because these shows he also, he filmed for TV and he didn't do. By this time he wasn't doing studio, studio shows, right. He was filming these cards. They would advertise, you know, whatever the main event or whatever, oh, it won't be showing, shown on tv. You know, they, that's one of their selling points at this time. But they would. These were the. These were the matches they were showing and airing on TV later were these big cards. And, you know, so that. That was Bruiser's approach. But, yeah, he was. Again, through the 70s, the WWA was. They were a powerhouse. Now 75 was right there. Pretty. Pretty peak, peak time. You get into 76, that's where the decline kind of starts. But 75 is, you know, right at their peak, where they're. They're firing on all cylinders. [00:32:22] Speaker B: All the territories started crumbling somewhat after 75. Sure, 75 was a very pivotal year. It was the year Mushnick retired as president of the nwa. It was the year. I mean, prophetic things to come. It was the year that Vince Sr. Started bringing Vin Jr to the NWA meetings. It was just a. It was the year that TBS uplinked for the first time to bring satellite and cable out to some other markets. So people were starting to get exposed to other wrestling, which always kind of hurt the home territory. Because these are guys you've seen for a long time, and typically your territory was tailored to you. But you just can't help it. When you see something different new, you automatically, most of the time, assign better to it for whatever reason. So when you start seeing these guys out of Atlanta and you start seeing this other stuff, you're like, oh, this is different. I like this. You know, whether it was any better or not, I don't know. But you just get a little bias in there. Hedonic adaptation. You know, it's like when you first buy a car, you polish it, you keep it up. You don't want anybody eating or smoking in it or anything like that. And two years later, it's just your car, you know. [00:33:54] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Or. [00:33:55] Speaker B: Or a nice picture in your living room. [00:33:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:59] Speaker B: But a year. A year later, you're just walking past it like. [00:34:02] Speaker A: That's. That's right. And some of that. That new exposure in the mid-70s helped the WWE. Jim Cornette has often said. Right. When the. The early to mid-70s, when he discovered the WWA on TV coming, you know, in Louisville. And some of his answers, that he saw it in these arenas that they were filming at. Yeah. With almost 10,000 people. And he thought, whoa, this is big time. Right. This is not studio. They don't have a hundred people there. [00:34:24] Speaker B: Look at this. [00:34:25] Speaker A: And so he. It was that. That image of the. The packed, you know, arena. He made it. To him, it felt. It felt big time. [00:34:35] Speaker B: Oh, sure. Oh, sure. And you know what's ironic about that is Indianapolis is the City where studio wrestling started. [00:34:42] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. [00:34:43] Speaker B: Jim Barnett, you know, the, the, the production truck that went to film the arena show broke down, and so Barnett moved the taping to the studio. And then he thought this, this is a lot cheaper to just do it at the television station and we don't have to move these heavy cameras and all that. So when Bruiser. When Bruiser reversed that and went back to the arenas, it was all of a sudden a brand new thing again. And, you know, it was, it was 15 years after people were used to seeing the cards out of Chicago and Hollywood. Yeah, everything old is new again in wrestling, you know. [00:35:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Some of the Indianapolis studios, it's fascinating with, to me being in from Indiana, some of the, the people involved. Right, because you had Chuck Marlowe calling a lot of these. Well, Chuck Marlowe later was the voice of IU basketball and called IU vessel. We had Bob Carter, who was doing interviews on some of those. Well, we didn't know it at the time, but later became Semi Terry, our Indianapolis, you know, horror host. [00:35:43] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. [00:35:45] Speaker A: So it's, it's fascinating in retrospect when you look at that, the people that were involved with that and, you know, some of that, you know, it carries on, right, Because Bruiser. Bruiser always used a lot of local guys kind of guys tied in that he always. And with Ty Guy, he used Sam Minicker to, To feud with Bobby Heenan early on and everything else. [00:36:07] Speaker B: But, uh, who was the regular announcer for the show, Dave? [00:36:13] Speaker A: It was Sam Minicker. In the 70s it was Sam Minicker. [00:36:15] Speaker B: Okay, that's what I thought. But I just wanted to confirm because you were throwing out some other names there and my ears were perking up because I'm, I'm interested in the commentators. You know, as a matter of fact, all this month, I'm doing a commentator from a territory every day on my social media because I just. They're so critical to the show and there's so many commentators. I mean, everybody knows Lance, everybody knows Gordon. A lot of people know Larry Matazik, but there's so many people that people have never seen, you know, because we don't have their tapes. [00:36:51] Speaker A: Yeah. With Indianapolis, Chuck Marlowe was that early guy, Right. That was. Predates a lot of people. He was that too. [00:36:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:57] Speaker A: But most people that know Indianapolis Wrestling, it's one of two guys, right. There's Sam Miner, who was the guy through pretty much the entire 70s up to the early 80s. And then after Sam, it was David Lane. David Mlan. Excuse me, David Mlan. David. Yeah. Who obviously went on, you know, to form Glow and everything else. And so he. He was the guy after that. [00:37:18] Speaker B: Right. [00:37:19] Speaker A: And. And then when it got into Bruiser, Bedlam of those last years, it was Terry Sullivan, who was an announcer for the Chic in Detroit for many, many years. In the 70s, in 80. So Bruiser didn't have a lot of turnover in that commentary there. But through the 70s, especially the mid-70s, it was all Sam Minicker. That was. He was the face. He was the guy we saw. He was on. They would film the promos, their interviews. Right. That. They would do those. They did those in studio and they did those on Tuesdays. And it was still Vineker was there doing those. So it was all. Sam Minicker was the face of the WWE at that time. [00:37:56] Speaker B: Indianapolis is the largest city in the state of Indiana. So obviously that was the town to. To be based out of or have the booking office in or whatever. And it's 800 over 800,000. Between 800 and 900,000. Population probably fluctuates a little bit, but it's. It's right in there. A little bit bigger than Nashville. I think it's market number 47 in the country, something like that. When I was in the broadcasting business years ago, I used to. I could quote the top 100 markets to you, but it's right in there. In the 40s, like Louisville, Nashville, some of those. Then the second biggest city in Indiana is Fort Wayne. Did they run Fort Wayne regularly too? [00:38:40] Speaker A: Yep, they ran Fort Wayne. Yeah. Fort Wayne was a regular stop for him. Terre Haute was a regular stop. Muncie, they ran Mensi pre regulated. And then. And then it was. It was like these other towns that were kind of spot town. Right. Like. Well, they did run Hammond quite a bit, which is just outside of Chicago. [00:38:56] Speaker B: The hometown of the Funks. [00:38:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:59] Speaker B: Indiana. What about South Bend? [00:39:01] Speaker A: They did, yeah, they would run South Bend, they would run Elkhart. But then. And then they had towns like. Like Columbus, Bloomington, some of these towns that they would just occasionally run. Right. Not as regularly. [00:39:11] Speaker B: Lafayette. [00:39:12] Speaker A: Lafayette, yeah. And which was the home area of Bruiser. He was from Deli, which is right next door to Lafayette. But yeah, there was in a lot of those. When you talk to Terre Haute, Muncie, those. They're college towns. So they were hitting a lot of college towns. But yeah, Terre Haute and Muncie were big stops for them. [00:39:36] Speaker B: Indianapolis, they ran on Saturdays. Do you remember what the schedule was at all? [00:39:43] Speaker A: No, it was. They didn't really have to. My Knowledge from what I've seen outside of Indianapolis, outside of Tuesday promo days for, for tv, it was not as set. So they did schedule. [00:39:54] Speaker B: They didn't really have weekly towns like. [00:39:56] Speaker A: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. [00:39:57] Speaker B: Like the Southern territory. So they just ran all their towns once a month. [00:40:01] Speaker A: Once a month, yeah. And the major towns. [00:40:04] Speaker B: So it really wasn't even. They didn't really run spot shows. They just ran everything like once a month and then maybe Indianapolis twice. [00:40:12] Speaker A: Yep, yep. And they, I mean, it was whatever he could pick up. Right. Later he would do a lot of fair shows because they were easy to pick up. [00:40:19] Speaker B: Sure. [00:40:19] Speaker A: And so it's just wherever he could. He worked with a lot of, A lot of organizations and things where if he could get someone to, to bring in what I would assume would. For my. And I don't have any proof, but I would assume he kind of bought show type things. Yeah, he would, he would do that where it worked with a lot of. A lot of organizations. But yeah, he. Everything was monthly with these. The towns that he run regularly. [00:40:40] Speaker B: Now a lot of 1975, Dick is not the champion for WWA. It's Ox Baker. [00:40:47] Speaker A: It is. [00:40:48] Speaker B: And so what do you. What are your memories of Ox? [00:40:52] Speaker A: Well, this, you know, obviously Ox is not very mobile, but Ox is a menacing. One of my. One of the, One of the falsehoods about Nick the Bruiser that bothers me the most because he's held, you know, he held the WWE title 13 times or whatever it is. So a lot of people think, oh, he always had himself on top. And that's, that's not exactly true because Dick was very good, very knowledgeable at knowing the money lay with him chasing the hill. He would have. Whoever the top hill was in 75. It was mostly Ox Baker. Right. In a few years later, he. It was guys coming through. [00:41:26] Speaker B: Right. [00:41:26] Speaker A: He. He had Ivan Koloff in. He had, you know, King Kong Brody in. There was always a major heel that would come in, take the title from Dick the Bruiser. Then there would be a series where Dick's trying to get it back. Eventually Dick would. Then there would be the next heel that would come in. So. So Dick knew there was. There was a lot to be said for that chase, which is why he held the title so many times. Right. Because he would sure he would lose it. And then, yeah, this year it was Ox in 75. And you know, Ox. Obviously Ox's work rate in 75 is not great, but he had the look. [00:41:58] Speaker B: It was better in 75 than it was in 81. That's true. When I later saw him in, in ICW, you know, that is definitely true. [00:42:08] Speaker A: But, but Ox, you know, he's. He's a great heel. He was a great heel. And that's, that's what Dick wanted. He wanted that monster menacing heel to come in, take the belt off of him, have a run so that Dick could chase him and eventually get it back. And then 75 was him. But. But Dick wasn't the one that ended up getting it back. Right. There was. Other guys would get their. Get their opportunities every now and again. [00:42:30] Speaker B: But 75 was the year that Baker and. And Ernie Ladd had the big riot in Cleveland. [00:42:36] Speaker A: That's right. [00:42:37] Speaker B: And so the first card of the year in Indianapolis, January 25, they drowned 9,000 people. And the semi main event is the world heavyweight title match. Ox defeated Ernie Ladd by dq. Yeah. Did Ernie work there quite a bit? [00:42:54] Speaker A: He did. Ernie was one of those deals. Ernie had to run with the mill. Ernie. Ernie was a tag champ with Baron Von Rashke and in Indianapolis as well. Yeah, he had. He had a run there for, for quite a while doing that same, that same bit. Right. He was the. The big monster hill that came in, took the belt, and there would be the chase. But yeah, Ernie was. Dick had his guys like that that he knew that he liked. And yeah, Ernie Ladd was definitely one of them. [00:43:20] Speaker B: The main events, a lumberjack match. Moose, Sherlock and Dick the Bruiser defeated the Legionnaires, which was the original team of Jacques Goulet. Here it's Renee Goulet, right? [00:43:34] Speaker A: Sure, yeah. [00:43:34] Speaker B: And Private Don Fargo, which always cracks me up that Don Fargo is a Private. [00:43:41] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know how anybody bought Don Fargo as a French Legionnaire, but it happened. [00:43:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:48] Speaker A: But yeah, and 75 is that pivotal year for the Legionnaires because that's when the change happened. Yeah, with Fargo. So. But they were. They were the dominant team. The Legionnaires were the dominant team for 75 and they held the title for most of the year. [00:44:00] Speaker B: And then in St. Louis, they draw 11,314, where Dick is on top in the main event, facing Jack Briscoe for the NWA World title. And he gets a DQ in the match with Jack. And then in Chicago, it's Ox Baker and Dick gets counted out. Ox Baker went over by count out, so he might not have necessarily gotten pinned, but he did put other guys over. [00:44:32] Speaker A: He did. Yeah, he. Yeah, Dick would do that. He would put other guys over, try to keep himself strong again. It was all Is all about the chase. I. I will forever say that Dick the Bruiser knew that the. The baby face which was him or if even if someone else that people would come to see the baby face chase the hill. He was one of those guys that bought into the hill champion with the baby face chasing. And if you. Because if you look at it, there's heels held the title a lot and for a majority of time with you know, a baby face chasing them. But yeah, he would do that, right. He would tease all. We're close, right? There's it was count up. Dick should have had him. So that would get people to come back for the rematch in February. [00:45:18] Speaker B: I don't have an attendance for this Indianapolis card, but in February a couple of interesting matches here they have a boxing match between Sam Meniker and Eddie Creechman, who is Sheiks manager. [00:45:30] Speaker A: Sheikh manager. [00:45:31] Speaker B: Yeah. And Sheiks in the main event in a cage match. Dick the Bruiser beat the Sheik that night. [00:45:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:37] Speaker B: On top. [00:45:38] Speaker A: Yeah. See it's again, another one of those. [00:45:40] Speaker B: Right. [00:45:40] Speaker A: They would get Sam Minicker involved. They did a thing with him. Getting him involved with Heenan. They did got a thing with him and Sam. Eddie Krishman. [00:45:46] Speaker B: I'd be. I'd give anything for a tape of that. [00:45:49] Speaker A: Oh that. I'm telling you that that's one of my. One of my holy grails. Is that that bruiser sheet cage match? And I believe. I don't know if this was the card I believe or. Excuse me. Jim Cornette was at this card. He. He talks about being at a bruiser chic cage match in Indianapolis. And I believe it was this one. [00:46:08] Speaker B: It might have been. I mean because he. I think Jim's a year older than I am. So in 75 he would have been 13. [00:46:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:16] Speaker B: So he probably was a little more mobile by then. Yeah, I would mom to take him. Sure. [00:46:23] Speaker A: Yeah. But again, I'd love to see that. I love. [00:46:25] Speaker B: I'm not making fun of. I'm not making fun of that. I had neighbors just down the road from where I live right now. I had neighbors just down the road that used to take me to Evansville every Wednesday night. So I. Yeah, I would get rides to wrestling anytime I could. [00:46:39] Speaker A: However, you could. [00:46:40] Speaker B: Also on this February card, the Legionnaires are defending the tag team titles against Moose Sherlock and Wilbur Snyder. And the heels went over. I'm sure Moose probably got pinned. [00:46:54] Speaker A: Yeah, Wilbur was. He was one of those guys. Wilbur again the co owner in Indianapolis. But Wilbur was. He was more. Had the Mindset of. I'm just going to lay back, you know, he wasn't always in the main event. Wilbur was most mostly used as a tag team wrestler. He had, I don't, I think, six or seven runs with six or seven different partners as tag champs. So, yeah, he. He put himself in that. And then when he got to a certain point and he was ready, he just retired and sold out to Bruiser and went to California. [00:47:24] Speaker B: And then Ox Baker again defeated Ernie Ladd and retained the title. So Ernie does the job for Ox. For the second month in a row in March, we've got. They draw 5,500, which might be their lowest crowd of the year. There might have been something else going on at that time, too. But the Legionnaires defeated Wilbur and Moose again in the. For the tag team titles. And then on top, Ox now gets Dick in the championship match. And he beats him by count out. Probably looked a lot similar to the Chicago match they had. [00:48:05] Speaker A: Probably. Probably, yeah. Probably no different. [00:48:07] Speaker B: But they go 15 minutes. I mean. [00:48:09] Speaker A: Yes. [00:48:09] Speaker B: Not a short match. [00:48:11] Speaker A: No. Yeah. And it's. Yeah, 15 minutes. I'm sure there was plenty of crowd working. I'm telling you, Knox Baker, take the Bruiser match at 70. I bet there wasn't a lot of bumping. [00:48:23] Speaker B: Yeah, well, yeah, I'm sure you're probably right. But. But still, I mean, I. I want to get. You know, the other thing I go back to, and this is in March as well, is that Ox is also on the Munchkin St. Louis cards. And Sam didn't really use guys who look like they couldn't get around. [00:48:45] Speaker A: So he didn't. [00:48:46] Speaker B: Or I'm going to use air quotes for those of you who are listening and not watching, but he didn't use old guys. You know, he didn't use guys where the fans had to really stretch to believe. I mean, so that tells me Ox still getting around pretty good here. If Sam was using. [00:49:03] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I would assume so. That's what made Dick the Bruiser always unique in St. Louis. Right. He was. He was very. A very different guy. St. Louis wrestling. [00:49:12] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Sam. Sam did not like brawling outside the ring. [00:49:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:16] Speaker B: And definitely if Dick was on the card, he was going to brawl, and that meant nobody else was going to brawl out the ring. [00:49:24] Speaker A: Yeah, and. And bruisers. I mean, he's in St. Louis all the way up into the 80s making appearances. So, yeah, there's, you know, he was that unique guy that got in there, but, you know, again, back, you know, to Indianapolis you know, 75, most people, they're not coming to see a wrestling match. If it's a oxen bruiser, they're coming to see a fight. [00:49:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:44] Speaker A: In a brawl. [00:49:45] Speaker B: Right. And blood, probably. [00:49:46] Speaker A: That's right. Yeah. [00:49:47] Speaker B: So the second card in March in Indianapolis, Cowboy Bob Ellis beat Carl Von Krupp by disqualification. Is this, Is this Carl our. Who am I thinking about? Killer Carl? Is that same. [00:50:05] Speaker A: I. I believe so. [00:50:06] Speaker B: Carl Von Crop. Is that. [00:50:08] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, to my knowledge. Yeah, It's. It's. [00:50:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:10] Speaker A: Kind of peculiar, him popping up.75, he couldn't. I don't think he was. [00:50:14] Speaker B: He couldn't work a lick. But I, I loved the way he looked, you know, I love his facial expressions. Crew. [00:50:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Is it. You know, again, I don't think he was around there a lot in the. In the mid-70s. So, yeah, he's popping up. Whatever. I don't know. Passing through for an appearance, but. But yeah, again, Cowboy Bob Ellis, a very underappreciated talent in my eyes. [00:50:35] Speaker B: He ought to be in the Wrestler Wrestling hall of Fame. [00:50:38] Speaker A: Should be in every hall of fame. [00:50:39] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. [00:50:40] Speaker A: He's. I mean, again, one of those guys. A victim to nut. They're not being taped enough tape to. To know what he. What he accomplished, what he did, how. How extraordinary, innovative. You know, the thing. He was just a great. He was a great talent. And, and here in 75, he's. He's getting up there in age, but he had a great career. [00:51:03] Speaker B: This might have been my buddy, Jim Lancaster. This might have been the highest place on the card he ever gotten because he is wrestling Luthez here. Oh, Jim is in the semi main event. [00:51:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Wow. That's pretty good. [00:51:20] Speaker B: Pretty cool. [00:51:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:21] Speaker B: Jim, I don't know how much you know about his career, but, I mean, this guy's on some famous cards. [00:51:27] Speaker A: He is, again, another underappreciated Midwest talent. [00:51:30] Speaker B: Yep. Yeah, I like Jim a lot. [00:51:33] Speaker A: Me too. [00:51:34] Speaker B: Yeah, he's so. He's in the semi main event, loses to lose. And in the main event. Listen to this. Dick the Bruiser Bruno Sammartino and. And Pepper Gomez defeat Ox Baker, Fargo and Goulet, the Legionnaires. Wow. [00:51:51] Speaker A: There you go. Yeah, there was. Yeah. I mean, Bruno came in to Indianapolis some for Bruiser. Right. They had a tag team title run. So at one point. [00:52:01] Speaker B: So let me ask you this question. Bruno did not draw well in St. Louis. Did he draw well in Indiana? [00:52:08] Speaker A: You know, No, I don't think he caused a bump or anything. Right. People probably loved. Oh it was Bruno, but I don't, Yeah, I don't think there was this big spike because Bruno Sammartino was on the card. I, I, yeah, I don't think he had that big of an impact to the numbers, but he, he was actually at one point coming in and lost the tag titles with Bruiser while he was in his second run as WWF champion. [00:52:35] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. So I've seen pictures of them with the tag belts in the fight, but. [00:52:43] Speaker A: Yeah, but I don't, yeah, I don't, I don't think Bruno really, if you look at the numbers, probably had that much of an impact on, on, on the att. I don't think anybody they brought in really had a spike to the attendance. I think it was more, if there was a jump, it was probably more related to a match type. Right. If they, if they put a stipulation on a match or something like that, at this point, I don't think anybody they're bringing in is really, really making that big of an impact. [00:53:14] Speaker B: We go to April and on top. So now the Dick the Bruiser, Ox Baker feud goes to a Texas Death match. Yeah, it's a non title and Dick's going to go over. I'm curious, probably could find out with a little bit more research, but I wonder how many falls that thing went. [00:53:32] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know. [00:53:34] Speaker B: Because false don't count. It's the guy that can't answer the 10 count, you know. But they drew 9,100 people. [00:53:41] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Right. You put a stipulation on the match. That's, that's seems to be what, what would draw some people in that again, they were, they weren't coming to see a wrestling match. They were coming to see Oxen Dick fight. And that's, that's what they wanted. [00:54:00] Speaker B: And then we go to May and there's two cards in May. The first one, Wilbur Snyder and Lou Thes versus the Legionnaires for the tag titles. On top. No, Dick the Bruiser, I don't know. Oh, this, this, they had this card at John Marshall High School. [00:54:21] Speaker A: Okay. [00:54:21] Speaker B: So they must have been doing a fundraiser or something. [00:54:25] Speaker A: Probably. Yeah. But yeah, Snyder and this, what a team. [00:54:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And then Dick and Ox are back in St. Louis in May. They draw almost 7,000 people. They're the semi main event. Dick goes over on Ox with a Harley race as the Missouri champion, defeating Terry Funk on top. So then we go to June and what do we got? The first card in June, Dick the Bruiser and the Crusher defeated the Legionnaires by disqualification. So there's no tag title change. And I think this might be the first time Labif is with Goulet. [00:55:06] Speaker A: Yeah. What month is this again? Were we in May? June? [00:55:09] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:55:11] Speaker A: Yes, probably. [00:55:13] Speaker B: What. What. What happened with the change there, Dave? [00:55:16] Speaker A: Well, the talk is that Goulet and Fargo had a fight in the locker room, and Fargo walked out, quit was done, and they brought in LaBeouf, which he was. He'd already been around, right. He was working. He worked for Bruiser a lot, did lots of different. He was in. Actually in the wwf, did the. The Yukon, the. The Pierre with part of the Lumberjacks. But he had done the. The Russian Stomper thing, the. The Igor Volkov. He had done lots of things for Dick previously and in the future, and he just, you know, he was kind of a guy there, and he stepped in and just filled that spot. But, yeah, the talk always is that Fargo and Goulet had a fight at a disagreement of some sorts, and Fargo took off. So that was the end of that Legion, that. That formation of the Legionnaires. [00:56:10] Speaker B: I always think about this guy and being in the Sheiks territory. But on the card here, about third from the top, is Ben Justice. Oh, yeah, yeah, it was Ben Big in wwe. [00:56:24] Speaker A: Yeah, Early. Earlier, he was. He was more, you know, a few years earlier, several years earlier, he was a little more of attraction. I don't think he was ever a regular guy in Indianapolis, but probably one of those guys that Bruiser knew, got to know working Detroit and brought down something. A lot of those guys would come down every now and again. [00:56:41] Speaker B: There's another guy from Detroit, too, on here, or the guy he worked a lot in Detroit, Prince Pullens. [00:56:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Another underappreciated talent. Yeah, I wish there was more film of Prince. I mean, one had an extraordinary physique, was just, you know, in. In everything else. But, yeah, Prince Poland's worked a lot in Indianapolis, too, as well as Detroit. But, yeah, these guys, you know, they would. They would yell. Do the shots for both. There was a lot of Cooper at this point, a lot of cooperation with the chic in Detroit. And tough. This was right after the. The war in Detroit, quote, unquote, where Bruiser ran opposition. [00:57:19] Speaker B: And also on that first card in June, you got to really stretch your imagination for this one. But Ox Baker defeated Luther's for the, you know, to. To keep the wwe, well, quite. Quite a notch in Ox's belt there. [00:57:36] Speaker A: Yeah, I would like to. I might Dive into that to see how I tried to find some information on what happened there. Find somebody that saw that, because I wonder. I wonder. There had to be shenanigans. [00:57:47] Speaker B: Must have been. [00:57:48] Speaker A: I can't imagine Luke taking a, taking a clean pin from Mox Baker. [00:57:52] Speaker B: Lou was doing a lot of things in 75 and 76. [00:57:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:57] Speaker B: You know, that, that he would never have done before. [00:58:01] Speaker A: True, true. [00:58:02] Speaker B: Because, I mean, he, the guy was, he needed to work and needed the cash and. Yeah, it was a shame, really, because of, you know, his stature in the business. Yeah, those, Those years from 75 to 80, we probably would be better off erased from his. [00:58:21] Speaker A: True. [00:58:21] Speaker B: His track record. [00:58:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:58:24] Speaker B: Second, the second card in June on top, we got the Legionnaires defeating Dick and the Crusher. So the Crusher and Bruiser are facing the Legionnaires on both of the cards in June, and Legionnaires are keeping them strong. Strong heels. [00:58:41] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. [00:58:42] Speaker B: I mean, this is kind of interesting too, because in a lot of, in a lot of companies in this era, you'd either have the heel be the singles champion and then the babyface tag champions, but Dick really put all the belts on all the heels. [00:58:58] Speaker A: Yeah, again, I, I, Yeah, I think he was, again, I think he was that proponent of that chase. And, and I said earlier, right. Not too many guys could come in and make it. Crusher was a guy. I don't know what he did with the attendance, but it would definitely be an impact when, When Dick brought in the Crusher. [00:59:14] Speaker B: Right. [00:59:14] Speaker A: When. [00:59:15] Speaker B: Yeah, they bring. [00:59:16] Speaker A: Bringing in his cousin drew, a little. [00:59:19] Speaker B: Over 7, 000 for that. [00:59:21] Speaker A: Yeah. So. So if anybody probably had an impact in this area, it would have been when the Crusher would come in and team with Dick. [00:59:27] Speaker B: You have any idea what they would have made for that? They. Like, what would Crusher get? [00:59:33] Speaker A: No, I don't, I don't know. I've not seen. I've seen some payout sheets for Chicago in the past, but that's, that's a whole different beast. Yeah, I don't, I don't know if. [00:59:43] Speaker B: If Vern was in charge of the payoffs, it was pretty generous. Probably. Probably heard he was really good payoff guy. [00:59:51] Speaker A: Yeah. And, and, but there's been a lot of talk that, that Bruce is not, that's, that there's always been these tales that, that's why a few guys would, would have fallouts with him is he wasn't, you know, he wasn't generous in the pay, no matter what. I mean, that's why Bobby Heenan left Right. He was managing. He managed the chic or, you know, in that. That match and was involved in that. The chic Bruiser. Whole deal, everybody get. There's this big card, big crowd. Everybody got a bump of pay, but. But he didn't. Got the same old thing. And that's when he said, you know, fine, I'm gonna leave and go to Vern. So there's a lot of talk of that. I've heard a lot of guys say, no, he was. But, you know, so I don't know. I guess it's. There's. There's a perspective there. Yeah. But. But there is some evidence. I mean, you know, he had a payout issue with. With Bruiser Brody one time that caused. Caused an issue in the locker room. And so there's definitely been some times where there's some payout issues with Dick the Bruiser. [01:00:45] Speaker B: The card has eight matches on it and about 19 guys working on the card. Two of them in the top two matches, though, are owners, so they're going to get their large cut no matter what. So I'm sure Crusher did all right. [01:01:06] Speaker A: I bet he did, yeah. [01:01:08] Speaker B: Probably took care of him. Okay. [01:01:10] Speaker A: And again. Right. They're filming these things for tv. That's why some, you know, there's. There's several matches a lot of times. And a lot of these guys are the lower card guys, you know, are helping on Rain Crew. Some of them, you know, there'll be someone's driving the ring truck like Mike Snyder. A lot of times. I don't know if he's on this car, but he would drive the ring truck or whoever. So, you know, there was always someone involved in that capacity. So a lot of these guys were multitasking. [01:01:36] Speaker B: Tell me about. Tell me about Bobby Bold Eagle. [01:01:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's Bob Boyer. It was. Yeah, he was. Played that Native American role. Was. He was a regular in Indianapolis for quite a while even, you know, again, he was probably getting up early in years at this time instead of. I think he. I believe he's still alive. I've talked to his daughter a few times, but he's. I don't think he's doing well. No, I think he's got. Yeah, I think. I hate to say he's got. I think he's got some issues that's, you know, not doing well. I'm not going to say anything because I don't want to misspeak, but. [01:02:11] Speaker B: Of course. [01:02:13] Speaker A: But I have spoke to his daughter because he was one of those guys. I tried to seek Out. I wanted to talk to. And. And then when I made contact with his daughter, she's like, I don't. He's not in a condition where he could. He could do that. Yeah. Yeah. But I do believe he is still alive. [01:02:27] Speaker B: He went to a time limit draw with Big Bill Miller, so. [01:02:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:02:32] Speaker A: I mean, he was, you know, diquid. Moderately pushing. You know, he was in and out different times, and he was there a lot in Indianapolis. [01:02:44] Speaker B: So that brings us to July, and Let's see here. July 19th at the convention and Expo center, we got a street fight with Dick the Bruiser and Ox the Baker. So they. They're keeping that program going. They got their. They got their top program. Sometimes when they do a stip match, then they don't put the title on the line. I guess that's so Dick can go over. [01:03:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:03:15] Speaker B: And keep the title on Ox. [01:03:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:03:18] Speaker B: And the Legionnaires beat Mike Snyder and Paul Christie. [01:03:22] Speaker A: Yeah, see, there you go. Mike. Mike Snyder, the son of Wilbur, was. It was a good. Again, another good young talent that really didn't get that opportunity to. To break up. Paul Christie had been around, right. He had a little bit of a stint in WWE after that magician thing. [01:03:37] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Paul was. Paul was a great worker. And I just got. I just got his book. [01:03:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I got that. Too Many Faces of Paul Christie. [01:03:46] Speaker B: I have not had a chance to read it yet, but it's in my pile. [01:03:50] Speaker A: And of course. [01:03:51] Speaker B: Of course, I knew him when he came into icw. [01:03:54] Speaker A: Yep. [01:03:54] Speaker B: And he came in with Bunny Love and his wife. I'm really interested in his. I. I hope there's some things in the book about his Arizona territory years. [01:04:04] Speaker A: Sure. Yeah. Again. Yeah. Paul was. Again, he was a regular in Indianapolis as well. Held the tag title several times with different guys. Yeah. Him and Bunny Love had a. I believe I. I believe Bunny Love was probably the first female manager probably ever in WWE when she came in with Paul. But I know Paul passed away here not. Not too long ago, a year or two. [01:04:27] Speaker B: Yeah, She's. She's still around. [01:04:29] Speaker A: Money's still alive, I think. [01:04:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:04:30] Speaker A: I think Bunny. I think Bunny's got a book out now. [01:04:32] Speaker B: Oh, good. [01:04:32] Speaker A: She has one. Yeah. So. Yeah. And another again. Paul's another one of those guys that I. I wanted to talk to, but he. He just. By the time I. I got made contact, trying to see with something in. [01:04:43] Speaker B: A condition, she is somebody I'd like to talk to sometime. Put her on. [01:04:46] Speaker A: Me, too. [01:04:46] Speaker B: I'd like to put her on the show because. [01:04:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:04:49] Speaker B: She's not going to be on a lot of the other bigger podcasts, you know, but I, I'd love to visit with her about her book. Lou gets a win here. He beats Johnny Star on. [01:05:02] Speaker A: Oh yeah, good old Johnny Star. Another right. He was. Johnny Star was. Will be known as the guy to replace Bobby Heenan. He was the guy they made that heel manager spot when Bobby left and again. But Johnny Star is a great talent, a lot of potential. But you're not, you're just not going to succeed when you're trying to field the Bobby Heenan shoes. It's just not going to work no matter how good you are. But he did, you know, again this time period he a lot, he's managing the Legionnaires a lot too. [01:05:33] Speaker B: John, John B. Davis. And he, he was, he wasn't really in the business that long, was he? [01:05:39] Speaker A: Nope, nope, absolutely not. And I believe he's. I, I think he's a preacher now. [01:05:44] Speaker B: Yeah. And around. [01:05:46] Speaker A: Yeah. And I, I talked to some of. He's been on. He's been on my show and, and everything else. But yeah, he's, but he had a good run. [01:05:53] Speaker B: Yeah, he's in the, he's in the main event and semi main event here a couple times and he's only been in the business a year at this, at this time. Now what, what year did Hainan leave? [01:06:08] Speaker A: 70. Was it 73, I believe. Some. Yeah, sometime around there where he's. And again that's, that's a big, that's a big hole. That's a big hit because Heenan was the foil for Bruiser no matter who Heenan managed. And at this time, Heenan Heenan was a, a bumping and bleeding machine. And this is the time period, right, those, those Indianapolis years, the early 70s is where you get those famous magazine covers of Bobby with the Crimson Mask because you know, regularly he Bruiser would bust him open and when, like I said, when he left, they tried to have somebody feel it. It was Johnny Starr and you know, no matter how good you are, you. It's, it's hard. Right. You're going to always be compared to Bobby Heenan. [01:06:59] Speaker B: On the second card in August, we got a hooded Algerian death match. Dick the Bruiser and the Crusher beat the Legionnaires with no titles on the line. I don't know what, what that has. [01:07:14] Speaker A: To do with anything. Who knows? I don't even know what that is. [01:07:16] Speaker B: That must be something to do with the Legionnaires being the French foreign I guests. [01:07:22] Speaker A: They would have lots of Stuff like that. I mean, whatever, Bob, whatever popped into Bruiser's head. I mean, they would have, you know, Gestapo death matches and different. He would just come up with names for things, so. [01:07:33] Speaker B: And he did. And he did the booking Bruiser. [01:07:37] Speaker A: He did, yeah. Yeah. I actually have, I have copies of some of his, some of his, you know, books. [01:07:42] Speaker B: All right. [01:07:43] Speaker A: Booking books and where he, you know, he's penciled in the cards and everything else. Yeah, he, Everything, Everything seemingly fell on him. [01:07:51] Speaker B: That's amazing that that stuff was still around. I'm glad you got those. [01:07:55] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. Oh, I love, I love scrolling through. It's fun, especially because. Right. This is. It's just a planner, Right. That he used. Every year he'd get a new planner the most because I, it's. I love it to cross reference dates and, and see things because, you know, I go on and look for articles and stuff and a lot of times stuff doesn't pop up. And so I would look in the book and see these dates, which would help, you know, pinpoint things. But the most fascinating part is when you get to some of the notes and the telephone numbers and some of the stuff that he would write in there and the contacts he would have for commissions and TV stations and just. It was amazing. And it's, it's. It always blows my mind to scroll through and see some of the phone numbers that he had. And it's fascinating stuff. But. Yeah, from these books, it looks like Bruiser was doing it all. [01:08:41] Speaker B: Sometime, if you don't mind, just when you're thinking about it and you got a little. Just snap one of those pages and send it to me, just one or two of them because I just like to see his handwriting, you know, it's great because. [01:08:55] Speaker A: Yeah, he would write that. He would write down stuff because you could tell he would. He'd help get certain people book places too. Right. Because. [01:09:00] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. [01:09:02] Speaker A: Certain dates there wouldn't be like a card, but it would say, I don't know, whatever. Just, you know. [01:09:06] Speaker B: Yeah. I've seen, I've seen Jim Crockett's book and it would. [01:09:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:09:10] Speaker B: Dusty in Atlanta or. [01:09:12] Speaker A: Yeah, stuff like that. Paul Christie and whatever. Memphis or something like that. [01:09:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:09:16] Speaker A: Where obviously he helped make that connection. [01:09:17] Speaker B: For him and he knew he wasn't going to be able to book him on his card. Sure. He lent him out or whatever and. [01:09:23] Speaker A: Yeah. And then. But obviously they'd have his cards written and then, you know, that's what helped me pinpoint down every. On these Tuesdays Right. Tuesday TV promos. He would write that and it would. Sometimes he would have dates listed there right under the TV promos of the. The dates he wanted to plug doing these promos. So it's fascinating to see us. It's, it's like peeking in their mind. [01:09:45] Speaker B: Chuck o' Connor beat Wilbur Snyder and if you don't know who. [01:09:49] Speaker A: John. [01:09:50] Speaker B: Big John Stud. Yep. [01:09:51] Speaker A: Big John Stud. Yeah. [01:09:53] Speaker B: And Ox Baker defended the title, beating Big Bill Miller. And the Hooded Algerian Death Match was on top. And it probably sounded like a great idea in Bruiser's head, but it only drew 5,500. So. Yeah, he's, he's, he's off about 5,000 people from his cards earlier in the year. [01:10:12] Speaker A: Yeah, probably. I mean, people probably, they probably didn't know what that was like. What's that even mean? [01:10:17] Speaker B: Or it's, or maybe they just thought just Bruiser and Crusher are going to. [01:10:21] Speaker A: Sure. Yeah. Yep. [01:10:24] Speaker B: September. We've got a Gestapo Deathmatch. [01:10:28] Speaker A: There you go. I do. It was coming up. [01:10:31] Speaker B: And in the Gestapo Death Match, the titles are on the line. And in fact, Bruiser and Crusher win the titles here on September 20th in Indianapolis. [01:10:40] Speaker A: There you go. Yeah. [01:10:41] Speaker B: They had also, earlier in the year, I should mention, they also, earlier in the year won the AWA tag titles also. [01:10:47] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. Yeah. So. And Bruiser, I believe, hold them out through the rest of the year. End of 76. I don't, I don't think they drop them in the rest of the year. [01:10:55] Speaker B: But they broke up the Buckwinkel Stevens team in awa. Ray had, Ray had, he had bought part of Terry Funk's interest in the Amarillo promotion. And he lived in Amarillo and he was going to be focusing more on that. And then Vern was going to start Nick's push and put the title on Nick at the end of the year. So they, yeah, he put the AWA titles on Bruiser and Crusher. And now they got. They're going to be like these wrestlers we see today that have 14 title belts around their waist. [01:11:31] Speaker A: Yeah. And again, Nick Bachwinkle Race Team is another one of those teams that. I wish there was more tape. Oh, my God. Yeah. And you know, that's again, an unfortunate, unfortunate thing. There's no more video now. [01:11:44] Speaker B: 1. Another unusual thing here on this September 20th card is Johnny Star and Chuck O' Connor beat Wilbur Snyder in a two on one handicap match. And that almost never happens. Almost. When you see a two on one handicap match, the, the one is typically going to win. [01:12:02] Speaker A: Sure. [01:12:02] Speaker B: Right. [01:12:02] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I don't know. They must have. [01:12:05] Speaker B: It's the second biggest star in the company too. [01:12:07] Speaker A: Yeah, they must have had. I don't know, I don't know if they had something in mind, trying to bring it back into October. I don't know. Yeah, that's, that's peculiar. [01:12:17] Speaker B: But Wilbur's a generous, giving guy. [01:12:21] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, Wilbur. Yeah, Wilbur put anybody over. He would. He, Wilbur just did his thing. He was very laid back. [01:12:29] Speaker B: Now, what it might have led to is in October we got a Texas Death match with just Wilbur and Chuck o' Connor together, and Wilbur wins, you know, so, yeah, two of you beating up on me, but one on one I beat you or something. [01:12:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm sure. That's what I'm saying. It was setting up that match in. [01:12:47] Speaker B: October and then also in October, the Valiants make their debut. [01:12:52] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [01:12:53] Speaker B: So they're in against Bruiser and Crusher for the tag titles. And this would be a match that would be across into AWA also. [01:13:02] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's again, it's Remark. Right. Wwe. There's so many guys that, that did get, that got their start like that. I mean, the Valiant got started in the wwa. Bobby Heenan started in the WWA later in the, in the, the waning years, you know, Scott Steiner started in the wwa. The Black Jacks. Really? Yeah. You know, got us, you know, a big start in the wwe. There's a lot of these teams and talents. [01:13:27] Speaker B: I love the Black Jacks. [01:13:29] Speaker A: I, Me too. That formulated in the. I was, I was one of the few guys that, when they tried to do the new Black Jacks, I was all about it Now. [01:13:37] Speaker B: Now, did the Valiants get over as well the second time around after they went to the wwwf and their big run there, didn't they came back here in 75, did they? [01:13:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I think so, yeah. I mean, yeah, you know, they, they had John and, you know, John had to run as champion. But yeah, I, I, I think the. [01:13:58] Speaker B: Vines were always, well, that's where he was when Jerry Jarrett, you know, found him and brought him to Memphis after he split with Nick. He found, Found Jimmy in Bruiser territory. [01:14:09] Speaker A: Yep. But yeah, I mean, you know, Bruiser always did the. All right. He had, John had a singles run there. Jerry Valiant was a. But that's John Hill. He, John Hill, quote unquote. Jerry Valiant had so many characters in wwa, so many different personalities over the years, had title runs under different personalities. He was just the guy that was very versatile. And again, another I I keep saying this, but another underappreciated talent. He, he did a lot of things right. I mean, a lot of people don't remember, but Jerry had. Was part of that tag team championship team in the WWF because Jimmy was, you know, whatever, hurt, sick, whatever you want to say. So Jerry was there, but get into. [01:14:52] Speaker B: November, Ox is still the champion and he defeats Pepper Gomez in a semi main. This is, I think, Pepper's first couple of shows here, and. Yeah, then they come back on top with Dick and the Crusher as champions against the Valiants in a no DQ match. And they beat Jimmy and Johnny. [01:15:13] Speaker A: Yeah. And again, you know, the Ox, Pepper thing is setting up bigger stuff, I would assume. [01:15:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:15:20] Speaker A: Because it's, it's leading to something. But yeah, Pepper again, it was a. They really put him over to Indianapolis. He was a, you know, was. He was a draw. He was a star. And there's a. Rizzy. Liked him. [01:15:30] Speaker B: Saturday after Thanksgiving, at the end of November, on the 29th, Pepper Gomez beats Ox Baker. And Ox's title reign in 75 kind of comes to an end here. So tell me about Pepper Gomez's run with the title. [01:15:46] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, I mean, Pepper, Pepper, Pepper, people like Pepper, but he was one of those, he wasn't going to carry the show even as champion. [01:15:56] Speaker B: Right. [01:15:56] Speaker A: They had some of those guys, but, but people appreciate Pepper, right, that, you know, the man with the iron stomach or however they build him. And they, they, they, they did that bit in Indianapolis as well. You know what, Evan? Whatever people, I don't know what all they did, right. Cars drive over his stomach, different things to, to sell that, but I, you know, I don't think Pepper you would define as a, A draw, as a champion, a guy who was gonna make the show, you know, bump the ratings, but he was kind of a popular guy that, you know, was probably more what you would call an interim champion, you know. You know, like I said, Dick, I think, always liked the hill. The hill, guys with babies chasing him, but someone's got to break, you know, in that. And there's got to be a run. And. [01:16:38] Speaker B: And it was the guy I started to say, now he's done a complete reversal in booking the territory because now all the belts are on the baby faces. [01:16:45] Speaker A: Sure. [01:16:46] Speaker B: So that means Pepper's run is going to be short. [01:16:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Which means. Yeah, he's probably. He's getting ready to set up the next, the next heel that's going to, you know, Heels. Excuse me. That's good. That's going to come in and End up taking the titles. And then we're doing it all over again. That chase and all the gimmick matches and everything else. [01:17:03] Speaker B: And then on top, Dick and Crusher defeat the Legionnaires. So you got the Val in one card in November and the second card in the Legionnaire. So it's. He's mixing things up pretty good. In December, the first card in December, Pepper defeated Chuck o' Connor in his title defense. We have a wrestler known as the Strangler who is. Goes to a time limit draw with Wilbur. Is this the next big heel, maybe? [01:17:35] Speaker A: Well, yes, he is coming. And again, the strangler is Mr. John Hill, Jerry Valiant, and yes, the Strangler ends up, you know, getting a title run and ends up with. Ends up in a feud with Bruiser. And yeah, he is the next guy. They're setting up to be the Hill. [01:17:53] Speaker B: And then on top, we got a cage match. Bruiser and Crusher beat the Legionnaires again. I mean, they're beating these guys in just about every, every kind of match you can imagine. Now here at the end of the year. [01:18:05] Speaker A: Yep, yep. Yeah, this is a. They're. They're, you know, that's. Again, that's winding up. Right. They're. That's typically. They're getting a few more stipulation matches out of it. And then, you know, that's, that's the way. That's the way Dick worked. [01:18:21] Speaker B: And then the last card of the year for 75. And this is something that's kind of interesting because I think this is the first time I've seen women on the card this year. [01:18:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:18:34] Speaker B: And it's some of my favorites. Cora Combs and Princess Jasmine. Yep. And actually Cora's daughter Debbie's under a mask is Lady Satan, which is one of Korra's old alter egos back in the day. And some. Some girl named Barbie Doll that I'm not familiar with. [01:18:54] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know who that is. [01:18:55] Speaker B: This is the first time I've seen girls all year. Did they work for Bruiser much? [01:19:00] Speaker A: They, they did. Right. And especially in the 80s, he would have lots of Princess Jasmine. He was trained by Prince Polins. He would have. Yeah. He had lots of ladies into the 80s, right. Alice. There was a female wrestler named Alice Cooper that would come in a lot. [01:19:13] Speaker B: Oh, boy. [01:19:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:19:15] Speaker B: And did you have makeup and snakes and. [01:19:17] Speaker A: No, no, no, no, no, no. I. No, I don't know. Again, I don't know where Bruiser pulls some of these names from. He's. He. I don't Know, but yeah, up into the. As we're, you know, Transitioning the late 70s and 80s, he often had, yeah, women's, women's matches on the cards. [01:19:32] Speaker B: The Strangler goes over twice, so you can kind of tell it's for television. But he, he beats Prince Pullens and then later on in the evening, he beats Sailor Art Thomas. Yeah. [01:19:43] Speaker A: Oh, another great talent. [01:19:44] Speaker B: They're putting, they're putting Strangler over pretty good, which, as you said, is Johnny Valiant. Pepper Gomez. Yeah. Jerry Valley. Sorry. Pepper Gomez retains the title again over Chuck o'. Connor. And in the main event, the Legionnaires get a win, but it's by dq. So Bruiser and Crusher keep the titles. Yeah, but man, what a great walk through 1975. Yeah, it's been a lot of fun. [01:20:12] Speaker A: It is, yeah. [01:20:13] Speaker B: What else do you kind of remember about 75 here as we wind down again? [01:20:19] Speaker A: It's just it, it's one of their prime years. Right, those, those mid-70s were prime years for the WWA. You know, again, we were talk, right, drawing big crowds. A lot of these crowds are, you know, right in the 10,000 vicinity. When it drops, it's, it's a surprise. It's an ab abnormality. But again, it's just Bruiser and his mentality of, of how he's doing it, doing the chase, using the stipulation matches. You know, a little, little hot shot booking here and there. But that, that's the way, that's the way he always booked. Right. And that was, to me, from what I've understood, stood by, looking at this, you know, a lot of people call Bruiser, you know, an egomaniac and he had to be on top. But I don't think, I don't think so. Yeah, I think, I think he used him in the chase a lot and others in the chase. [01:21:09] Speaker B: Well, again, you pointed this out earlier. I mean, some of that is biased from the video era. [01:21:14] Speaker A: It is, yeah. [01:21:15] Speaker B: Because that's what they saw of him. And he was putting himself over at the end when maybe he shouldn't have been. But honestly, as we walked through the year, I mean, I'm somewhat of an analytic guy and as we walk through that, I kind of thought he mixed the booking up pretty good throughout the year. I mean, he was mixing his heels in and he was mixing the singles and the tag team matches in the semis and the mains and he wasn't on every card and he was, he was elevating the mid car guy. He was sure he was moving guys up this side and bringing them down the other side. [01:21:48] Speaker A: Yep. It's a lot of pretty standard wrestling booking. [01:21:52] Speaker B: Right? [01:21:52] Speaker A: You could tell, like there at the end, you can see he's building the Strangler to be that next champ or the next contender, the next challenger. Right. And they did that. Right. You could see the guy he was building is the next heel or the next tag team contenders. Pretty standard. [01:22:10] Speaker B: And to add some complexity to it, he was also. We just covered Indianapolis. I mean, he's booking other towns every week in Indiana. Yeah, I saw. Just randomly. I didn't bring it up, but they ran Champaign, Illinois one time. [01:22:24] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:22:26] Speaker B: And he's also performing on top in Chicago and St. Louis too, which I think adds quite a bit to it. I mean, he's traveling, being a guy on top, carrying the load for the company, doing all the booking, doing the business end of things. He got a lot. He got help from his wife too, didn't he? I mean, was she involved? [01:22:47] Speaker A: She did. She. She hated wrestling, but yes. I mean, technically, the company was in her and Wilbur's wife's name, Right? They were. They were the ones that had the license. Yeah. She did a lot of. A lot of, I'm sure the bookkeeping type stuff. [01:23:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:23:02] Speaker A: And evolved like a lot of. A lot of wives did at that time. [01:23:05] Speaker B: Well, as a lot of wrestling companies were, it was a family business, you know. [01:23:09] Speaker A: It definitely was. And like. And you spoke of it, right? He had son in law Spy. Cuber was a son in law. You know, Scott. Later. Scott Romer was Eddie Creature. Was a salt creature. Excuse me, was a son in law. [01:23:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:23:23] Speaker A: And, you know, there was these times, like with Spike when he fell out with Bruiser's daughter and gone. And you know, Dick would shift gears. [01:23:35] Speaker B: Sure. But. [01:23:36] Speaker A: But when they were. When they were in good. You know, when they were in the family, like, like talking about Scott Romer, right. As. As Saul, he drove the ring truck and did all that because Bruiser could rely on him because he was in the family. [01:23:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:23:49] Speaker A: And he knew that that guy, he would be there. If he wasn't there, Dick knew where to find him. He lived next door to Dick. [01:23:55] Speaker B: That's right. [01:23:56] Speaker A: So, yeah. And that's the way these. That's the way the territories worked. You had to lean on the guys. [01:24:00] Speaker B: You could depend on how much Jerry Jarrett's video man. Lived next door to him for years. I mean. Yeah, I just walked over there for the. Doing the TV show. [01:24:09] Speaker A: That's right. [01:24:10] Speaker B: Well, man, listen, this has been a lot of fun I can't tell you how much I appreciate you taking the time to visit with me. And I know our watchers and our viewers are going to love this because they're loving all our trips down 1975 with the various territories. And I couldn't think of anybody better for the wwa. So thank you so much for coming and visiting with us about it. Tell everybody where to find your show. [01:24:33] Speaker A: Again, It's. It's pretty easy. Just look up wrestling nostalgia. It's on all the platforms and you can find it there. I'm. You can look up Nostalgic Dave Dynasty. That's kind of what I go by. I'm on all the social media platforms. You know, there you can look up Nostalgic day Dynasty on YouTube because not only do I have the fact I actually have multiple podcasts, only one's wrestling. [01:24:53] Speaker B: Oh, okay. What do you do on the other ones? [01:24:55] Speaker A: Well, I actually, with. With one of my sons, I have a horror podcast because we're horror movie fans. [01:25:00] Speaker B: Oh, good. [01:25:00] Speaker A: So we have that. And I actually have one that is a Ramones podcast because I'm a huge fan of. Ah, yeah. So I have that. Where I talk to a lot of people in that. In that circle. Yeah, so those are out there. [01:25:11] Speaker B: My gosh. I used to. In the 70s, I bought all kinds of cream magazines and the Ramones were on a lot of them, you know. [01:25:19] Speaker A: Yep. I love the remote and. But if you, you know, not only that, if you subscribe my YouTube channel, though, there is lots of WWE wrestling on there. I have lots of episodes, lots of stuff that nobody else that I. I put out there originally. Right. Because I have. [01:25:33] Speaker B: Sure. [01:25:34] Speaker A: A lot of. I have a lot of tapes that. That I have acquired, you know, over the years that I'm in the process of having converted. Most of them are late. Late years. Bruiser, Bedlam wrestling. [01:25:45] Speaker B: So. So what's the oldest you have? [01:25:49] Speaker A: On my site, I have. I have some going back to the 60s. I have two episodes with. With Chuck Merlo as the host in black and white. [01:25:57] Speaker B: Nice. Then what is that site? [01:26:00] Speaker A: You just look up Nostalgic Dave Dynasty on YouTube or I think it's, you know, you go to YouTube, it's the Dave Dynasty. [01:26:06] Speaker B: I'm gonna put that on my big television tonight. [01:26:08] Speaker A: There you go. But I've got, again, a lot of WWA, a lot of stuff, a lot of. From the 70s, but a lot that nobody else has. And I have a lot more. I mean, I'm sitting here looking at my tapes. [01:26:18] Speaker B: That's the Thing, man. You go through and you talk about all this stuff for an hour, an hour and a half, and it's like, I want to see some now. [01:26:24] Speaker A: It is, right? Yeah. A lot of what we. I mean, again, a lot of what we talked about from the 70s, from 75. It's. It's on my YouTube. [01:26:30] Speaker B: Who you got coming up on your show? [01:26:33] Speaker A: Let's see this week. My next episode coming up is. Is a guy named Jordy Day. He did the documentary, the new documentary that's out on Raven, and I talked to him about. It's. It's pretty fascinating. I know it's a newer thing, but Raven to me is a fascinating character because Scotty Levy. Scott Levy, he's. He's the. The epitome to me of the bridge from old school to new. [01:26:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:26:54] Speaker A: And so he's a fascinating guy. The documentary is fascinating to. To see. [01:26:58] Speaker B: Nice. [01:26:59] Speaker A: But then I have a few other guys. I just had Max Payne on from late wwe. And again, I like guys like that because a lot of people are like, Max Payne. That's weird, right? Why would you talk to me? But he's got some really fascinating stories, and he's a guy that is not overexposed. [01:27:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Which is. [01:27:17] Speaker A: Which is what I like, so. [01:27:18] Speaker B: Nice. [01:27:18] Speaker A: But I've got a lot of other guys that, you know, I'm obviously in the talks with, and hopefully we'll work out in the future. I don't want to really announce it. I'm one of those guys that I don't. I don't like the Jinx myself. [01:27:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Well. [01:27:31] Speaker A: But. And it. And I, you know, I plan, you know, to bring back some of the old favorites. You know, I wouldn't. I'm sure at some point, you know, Jerry Graham Jr. Will be back on the show because I love talking to him. [01:27:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, we. We've talked about me coming by. I hope I can catch some time. [01:27:44] Speaker A: Sure. Yeah. You'll be definitely. Yeah, we'll definitely have you on and talk. Talk something. Whatever it is. [01:27:51] Speaker B: You pick something. Well, I can. [01:27:53] Speaker A: Whatever it is. [01:27:54] Speaker B: I can talk a little bit about everything, so. [01:27:56] Speaker A: Me too. I just. I'm. [01:27:58] Speaker B: I. [01:27:58] Speaker A: Whatever. I. I love to talk about wrestling. [01:28:00] Speaker B: Me too. [01:28:00] Speaker A: I love to hear people tell stories to me. The interviews that I do, it's about wrestling, and it's about the wrestling business, but it's also about the person and the personalities. [01:28:10] Speaker B: That's right. [01:28:11] Speaker A: And. And that's what I like. I like. I like hearing their. Their stories. And it's. It's. That's What I like. I love hearing it. I like preserving it for history's sake. [01:28:22] Speaker B: Well, we've been going down 1975 in the WWA, the wrestling promotion owned by Dick the Bruiser and Wilbur Snyder. The year 1975. It's wrestling nostalgia with Dave Dynasty. He's been our guest tonight. Dave, thank you so much, man. [01:28:36] Speaker A: Absolutely. And I hope. I hope people will go out there and seek out more wwe have a new appreciation for the wwa, because, again, that's. It's not one to sleep on. [01:28:47] Speaker B: Dynasty wasn't that great. We walked through the entire year of 1975 in the WWA and hit all the high spots. And, man, the WWA was still very, very strong in 1975. They were still drawing a lot of people as we covered there in the Indianapolis territory. And I hope you enjoyed that, because I really enjoyed talking to Dave today. He's a fantastic fella, and I hope we can have him back to talk about 1976 next year. Want to remind you, I'm working on a couple of books. I've been working on the Dori Funk Sr. Book now for three years, Dorie Funk Sr. The King of the Texas Death Matches. And I've got a couple more interviews I'm still trying to put together, but I've already started the writing process. I've basically closed the research process. A couple things come in here and there that I add to the research I already have. There's no way I can put all this research into this book, but I'm looking forward to getting the book finished, getting it to an editor, getting it formatted, and getting it in your hands next year in 2026. Because right behind that, I'm working on the Jim Barnett book and Jim Barnett the Wizard of Professional Wrestling book that I'm working on that's scheduled now for 2027. And I have a lot of research on that completed. I'm still discovering things about Mr. Barnett. Since I was on the Briscoe Bradshaw Show. A lot of people have contacted me with information about Jim Barnett, and it just keeps coming in. I mean, he was a master of the pro wrestling business. He was the wizard. And so that book I have scheduled for 2027, so those are always works in progress. And actually there are a couple more books that I want to do that I've actually kind of started that sort of are connected to the Dorie Funk book and the Jim Barnett book that I also want to do. So we got a lot of things over the next 15 or 20 years to get to you. And thank you so much for all your support because it really helps me out. Research is expensive. Going and doing the research and spending the time. I mean, there are only so many hours of the day, and if you give an hour to something, you don't give it to everything else. So I love it, though. I really enjoy the process. I really enjoy the writing. That's one of the reasons I started the Daily Chronicle, which is my wrestling history newsletter that you can subscribe to on Substack. It's absolutely no charge whatsoever, and you get that every single morning at 5am Central Time, 6am Eastern and 4 Mountain and 3 Pacific. And so we send that out every morning. And I write that newsletter every single day. And the reason I started that was I wanted to improve my writing skills. And the way to improve a skill set is you continually practice, you continually use it. And so I'm getting my 10,000 hours in in writing. You know, 10,000 hours or 10 years, which I'm endeavoring to shorten by writing the Daily Chronicle every day and the other special pieces that I write in the substack to sharpen up my writing skills. And it's helping me do a little bit better job in writing the books. And so you can also become a premium subscriber to my substack for just $5 a month or $50 a year. And that helps me because it shows support for my work. And you're giving into the work I do as a wrestling historian. And I want you to know how much I appreciate that from all our premium subscribers. And I'm continually thinking about what can we do special for our premium subscribers that have been so generous with their hard earned money to help support me as a wrestling historian? My social media channels are the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel Facebook group. You can also Find us on YouTube for the video version of our podcast, Tony Richards Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel. YouTube. It's Tony Richards 4 on X, formerly known as Twitter, and Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel at Substack. Okay, next week, guess what? Steve Varier is going to be here and he's going to talk about the Vancouver territory in 1975. And that's going to be great because he also has written a book about the Pacific Northwest. He's also written a book about Gene Kinisky, the NWA World champion. And we cover some of those things. But our main focus is the Vancouver territory that Kiniskey was a partner in. And we're going to cover the year of 1975. I think you'll enjoy it. Because there's just not a lot out there about the Vancouver territory. And those are the kinds of things that I like to do, things that maybe other people have overlooked or maybe they don't talk about much. And we put it here in the Time Tunnel. Also, next week I'm going to be doing my second Q&A session. So two weeks ago the Q and A went over really, really well. Or that would be a week ago, but it'll be two weeks by the time I do the next one went over really, really well. I got so many great comments about it, so much great feedback and people are still sending questions. So we'll do our second Q and A session on next week's show. So please post your questions on all my social media channels. You can also direct message those to to me on social media if you want to remain anonymous. And I'll get those answered for you next week. Thanks, everybody. I hope you enjoyed the show today with Dave Dynasty, Steve Varier in Vancouver. Coming up next week here in the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel, I'm your host, Tony Richards, reminding you if you want better neighbors, be a better neighbor. So long, everybody from the Bluegrass State. [01:35:04] Speaker A: Thanks for tuning in to the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel podcast. Tune in for another great episode next week, interviewing wrestlers, referees and media personalities that have made the sport of professional wrestling great. We'll release a new episode soon. Don't you dare miss it.