Episode 57: Wrestlemania 42 Week

[00:00:02] Speaker A: Time for the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel podcast. We've got lots and lots of things [00:00:06] Speaker B: to talk about and to do today. [00:00:08] Speaker A: Covering the territories from the 1940s to the 1990s. [00:00:13] Speaker C: It's the best thing going today. [00:00:18] Speaker A: Interviewing wrestlers, referees, authors and other media personalities that have made the sport of professional wrestling great. [00:00:27] Speaker C: The cream. Yeah, the cream of the crop. [00:00:30] Speaker A: And now, here's your host, Tony Richards. [00:00:33] Speaker C: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel Territory History wrestling show. Wow, that's a mouthful, isn't it? But essentially, here at the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel, we are your home for the history of territory wrestling and a little bit different show today. We're going to talk about some current stuff, which we hardly ever do, but because it's the biggest week in pro wrestling, which it's WrestleMania week and WrestleMania weekend coming up in just a couple of days. I, you know, and it has such strong roots to the history of pro wrestling. How could we not talk about WrestleMania? And I've invited two of my favorite people in the world. And what I really wanted in today's show is I wanted to get just like we talk when the recording's not on and we have lots of conversations between us when the tape recording is not running or the digital recordings not running or whatever it is we use to record ourselves these days. And you ever go to a coffee shop or a deli or a grocery store that has a little cafe or something, and the old guys are already all sitting in there, sitting around the table, talking about the basketball team or the professional sports team or about current events, and they're all sitting around having their coffee and their eggs or whatever, but their conversation, they meet there all the time and they're having these discussions, talking about what's wrong with the world and what could be different, what could be changed. But they also talk about some things they like. And that's what I'm trying to capture in today's episode. Steve Giannarelli, Brian R. Solomon and me is talking about WrestleMania. And we talk about the changes that have happened in wrestling. We try not to go. I mean, you know me, I'm Mr. Positivity. I don't. If I do have something to say, I'm usually going to accompany it with something good or something positive because I just don't want to knock the guys because, I mean, they're doing things that are amazingly athletic. And they're also presenting the product as in the way that it is presented today. And I talk about that some in today's show. And we'll get to that in a little bit. But also before we get there, I'm going to do this from the back to the front, so the WrestleMania discussion. But before we get there, we have a guy in our podcast wrestling community who's retiring. And. Well, he's not retiring, but he's retiring his show and he's got a couple episodes left to go. But John Mayer McCall is going to be calling it done with his show that he does now. And I wanted to invite him on the program and just have a conversation with him because we'd never met before and I've definitely heard of him. He says in the talk you're about to hear that he's heard of me. And so I just, I had a great time with him here at the ranch and us just sitting and visiting and talking about how he became a wrestling fan. What was it that inspired him to get involved in this crazy and wacky business and sport that we all love? And how did he decide to start doing a podcast? And we talk about the people on the show with him, one of which is his wonderful wife, Melissa. And so we have a great conversation and you're going to get to hear it here in just a second. Before we get there, though, I want to remind you that you help us out a lot when you like our show. And first of all, people ask all the time, what can we do to help you support your work? Well, you can subscribe to the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel, Daily Chronicle and all the other material I put out there every single day that goes out. If you want to support us financially, you can become a paid subscriber to the Daily Chronicle and to the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel. And you get some really cool value added stuff that only paid and premium subscribers get, such as my huge deal that I did this weekend on tracking the world champions for the month of March in the years on the Sixes. So because we're in a year that ends in six, I go back to 26, 36, 46, 56, 66, 76 and 86 and the month of March. And all of those years I talk about what was going on with the recognized and known world titles at the time. And there were some really interesting things that happened in March of 36. You had the Dick Chicat and Frank Sexton shoot match where Chicago took the title off of Sexton. You had the 1946 month of March where the promoters in the Midwest, primarily in Des Moines, Iowa and in Kansas City, were starting to get tired of the National Wrestling association and they wanted their own world champion that they knew was going to get booked on a regular basis and was going to be reliable and believable in their towns. Pinky George and Orville Brown. And so they decided that Orville Brown would be the first champion. He was already the Midwest Wrestling association champion, but they started calling him the National Wrestling alliance champion. And this is two full years before what we know as the recognized National Wrestling alliance formation happens in Waterloo. So it's interesting, and I talk about that in the Tracking the World Champions feature. I also talk about the 1956 title change in March luthes to whipper Billy Watson. And there was some backstage drama with that too, which you can read about in the feature. And we go through the 66, 76 and 86, and it coincides with the seven stages of the Territory Era and the model that I have where I try to get my hands around and my arms around this big huge thing that we call the Territory era. So those are just some of the things. We're launching a brand new feature this month called Family Tradition where we're gonna track some of the family bloodlines in professional wrestling. In that special series and other stuff, you get the evolution of wrestling and some other things. When you're a paid subscriber, the other thing that you can do to support us is here on the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel History show, you can hit that five star review button, right? And so it would be awesome if you did that. If you hit that, it's on, you know, I know right where it is on Apple podcasts because that's the app I use. But some of you use Spotify, some of you use Podcast Addict, but you can find it. And when you do hit the five star button and help support us, that's what's called a five star review. And that helps us get the word out to more and more people in all the various tracking algorithms that are out there. And I said last week on the show that when we hit 25 reviews, I'll do some kind of special bonus episode just to thank you guys for your support for just hitting the button. That's all you got to do. It's just really quick. Hit the button. 5 star review for the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel History Show. And when we get to 25, I will do something special. All right. Now, a couple letters I want to read that I got this past week. The first one comes from Adam Wallenberg. And Adam sent this to me, says, good morning, Tony. Not sure if you remember me, but we met last Year in Waterloo. Of course I remember you, Adam. You were with Tom Burke's group. A whole bunch of you over there. I was sitting there with Thunderbolt Patterson and Jerry and JBL and a couple other people. And you guys were over in the corner at Trivia night at the bar. Says, I read your daily newsletter and wanted to comment on the recent one you did about flying. Fred Curry. I live and work in Connecticut in Hartford county, and I know Fred's cousin Tommy, who owns a sandwich shop near where I work. I've gotten to know Tommy in recent years and sent that issue over to him. Oh, cool, man. That was nice of you. I saw Tommy this morning and he and the family are very appreciative for your writing. I knew Mr. Curry, his sons Nick and Rocket Fred Jr who I worked with the New England Independence in the early 2000s. A fantastic family. And Fred was a great guy, man. Thank you for sharing that with them. Of course, if I had contact with them or knew him, I would have shared it with them. But Adam, thank you for sending that over. And yeah, that's why we do well, at least that's what I do. Like, I do that because I've gotten so close to so many different families. The Welch family, the Funk family. Now, you know, they did this for the Currys and getting them some recognition and some honor and make sure that these guys are not forgotten. I mean, that's what we're all about here at the Pro Wrestling time Tunnel. All right. And Adam, listen, next year or this year at Waterloo, in just a couple of months, let's hang out. Not just at the trivia night at the bar, but let's hang out and get some time in. Would love to spend some time with you talking about wrestling. Dave Herring sent me this on instagram @tony richards 4. The same thing as my X handle. And Dave says, just a fan of your appearances on Briscoe and Bradshaw. And more recently, I have discovered the Time Tunnel. Thanks for all you do. And congratulations on the hall of Fame and oh, congratulations on the hall of Fame. They just announced. Thank you, Dave. I appreciate that. I'm still don't know exactly what to think about it. I'm honored and speechless at it, really. Sir, just another note. I wanted to thank you again. I've been taking care of my disabled mom for the last 10 plus years. On Friday, she had surgery to attempt to get back some mobility and hopefully be able to move home after being in a nursing facility for most of the last year. Wow. The surgery was successful. But her body couldn't take the strain and she passed on Sunday. Oh man, I'm so sorry. There were innumerable hours between her going in for surgery and her passing, even if the clock only said 36 hours. During those hours, the only thing that seemed to maintain my sanity was the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel History show. Thank you so much. Oh geez, I forgot today's April Fool's Day. This is not an April Fool's joke. Oh man, Dave, thank you so much and I'm so sorry about your mother. I was just talking to coach Ellis here on X. We had on the Twitter X. We were having a little exchange because it was the one year anniversary of his mom passing. And I told him that condolences and his wife looked like a very nice and wise woman. And I could see that in the coach too when he is on the Talk in Memphis wrestling show. And I told him, and I'll say to you, that's why I moved back here to Kentucky and bought some additional property right next to the original Richard's ranch that my mom and dad lived on and that I was raised on. Of course, my dad passed away three years ago. My mom's lived alone now for three years and I've been back here now it'll be a year, the 1st of August. Because I wanted to try to repay her for all the things that she had done for me in my life, especially just getting me here. I wouldn't have been able to get here without her and without my dad. And so when our moms pass, it's really special and it's, it's, you know, something that you don't forget and what My best friend, I just had lunch with him on Friday and I was telling him about some. He asks about my mom every time and I was telling him a little something about it and I'll share another thing. About two years ago I was home, I was still living in Missouri and my best friend Dave that I'm talking about, that I've known since I was six, he, he, he said, I'm going to come by and get you tomorrow because I want you to go with me to see mom. And I thought to myself, his mom passed like, what's he talking about? She passed like a few years back. Yeah, you know. So anyway, he comes by staying at my condo at Kentucky Lake at the time and he picks me up and we head out and we come over here, which we lived on the condo and the lake is on the south side of the county. Well, where we Grew up is in the north side of the county, but 25 miles or so over here. And so we drove over here. I wasn't living over here at the time. Didn't even own this property at the time. And he pulled in to the cemetery and we drove up to the cemetery and we spent time at her grave. And he flipped his sun visor down and he had a picture of his mama, but he said, I take her everywhere I go. So, Dave, want you to know I'm praying for you, man. Peace and love and serenity for you during this time. And thank you so much for the kind words. I appreciate you reaching out. So sorry to hear about your mom, man. Thanks for listening and we will try to continue to be good companions for you here on the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel History Show. All right, I got a couple more things to tell you. I will do that at the end of the show. We will go directly from my conversation with John Mayer McCall right into our roundtable about WrestleMania 42. And then I'll be back at the end of the show to talk to you, to wrap things up and to tell you about something special this weekend that I'm going to be doing. And I hope you can come out with us. So hang on. Here's my conversation at the Richards Ranch with mayor John Mayer McCall. Hey, everybody. I am so glad to be coming to you from the Richards Ranch today because I have, I have a guy here that I have wanted to have on the show for a really long time. And shame on me, I just keep bumping him around because other things come up, people pass away or we got an anniversary of something or a special show or something. But then I heard from Bob Smith that he's closing this podcast down and before he goes to Jamaica or something, I had to get a hold of him so I could have him on the show. And I'm talking about John Mayer McCall. How you doing, man? [00:15:51] Speaker A: Hey, what's going on? Tony, it's my, it's been my honor and privilege to come on here with you this morning. So thanks for. Thanks for having me, brother. And I've been looking forward to this. [00:16:01] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm so glad I got a chance to talk with you now. Let's just get this over with right away. What made you decide to stop doing. You still have some episodes going right now, right, of your podcast? [00:16:16] Speaker A: Yes, sir. I've got. I've got about, about five or six more to release. I just feel that, you know, that I focus on all old school wrestling. But, you know, really focusing on the Memphis territory. I think I've just, you know, accomplished everything that I've set out to accomplish, you know, if you will. [00:16:32] Speaker C: Now, you started this podcast back in 2023. What caused you to want to do the podcast to begin with? [00:16:43] Speaker A: I was, I was sitting around one day and one of my oldest friends in the world, seventh grade study hall, Matt Mills, calls, and just out of the blue, he said, man, have you ever started. Thought about starting a podcast? I was like, no, man, what the hell would I talk about? And he was like, man, you should start a podcast about wrestling. And it just kind of got in my mind. And I remember going to bed that night and just kind of woke up, you know, Tony, how you just wake up and get something in your mind, it just kind of. It doesn't go anywhere and you go full force with it. So I just got it in my mind that, hey, man, I'm gonna. I'm gon do a podcast on. On wrestling. Then, you know, the next step was to narrow it down and I was just like, you know, I've always been around Memphis wrestling. That's my fandom, that's my passion and love. So I'm going to do an old school podcast focusing on the Memphis territory. [00:17:28] Speaker C: Well, I, I learned a long time ago to keep a notepad by the bed because I had a couple of instances where I had an idea in the middle of the night. I woke up and I thought, oh, that's a great idea. I'll work on that in the morning. I wake up in the morning, I can't remember what in the heck it was. It's gone. I don't even have a clue. I just remember it was a good idea. I think there was even a Seinfeld skit about that where Jerry had a joke or something, then he couldn't remember it, but I started keeping a notepad. But I'm like you. Nine times out of ten, I got to get up out of the bed and work on it. I can't just write the idea down. [00:18:06] Speaker A: No, I totally agree. And it's funny you would say that because there's been many times where I'll just. Something will pop in my head or something. I'll go jot it down or. Well, I guess with technology these days, you know, the iPhone, I just, you know, go in the notes section and start, you know, typing stuff out. But yeah, it's nothing wrong with, you know, jotting stuff down or keep keeping a record because, you know, I'm. I'm not Old, but I'm old enough where, you know, I can't remember everything like I used to, so. [00:18:29] Speaker C: Well, it just kind of started out like you say, as a suggestion by a friend and I'm sure you didn't have any big goals for it, but man, it blew up and became, you know, one of the most listened to shows out there. I mean, how do you feel about. How do you feel about closing it? [00:18:51] Speaker A: Well, speaking of closing it, I'm just. I've got everything I have recorded and I'll be releasing it, but you know, it's not going to go anywhere. It's gonna, it's gonna remain active and at this point, you know, I can focus, you know, more on just, you know, promoting it to maybe the, you know, even more listeners than we've got currently. [00:19:07] Speaker C: So. So this is gonna be kind of like a wrestler retirement. You're not, you're. You're liable to come back at any time. [00:19:16] Speaker A: I don't know. But you know, I could, I could put a flare. You never know. [00:19:19] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or any. Or insert name here, you know. Exactly, exactly. Anybody who, who all have you had on your show? I've got a couple of. I've got a couple of my favorites I'll mention to you, but I want to know from you, like who, who have you enjoyed having on Handsome? [00:19:38] Speaker A: Jimmy Valiant, Wildfire, Tommy Rich. It was. Just became good friends with Steve Kern and it was my absol. Honor to have in my opinion the best tag team to ever come through the Memphis territory. The fabulous one. Steve Kern and Stan Lane. That was just huge for me. Flamboyant Eric Embry. Haven't released him yet. That's gonna be a big one. Jeff Jarrett, Double Jerry, the King Lawler. You know, I enjoyed, I really enjoyed Black Bart, you know, God rest his soul. Rest in play. Rest in peace Bart. He was a really fun one to do. [00:20:12] Speaker C: You know, I'm good. I'm good friends with a guy that. He spent a lot of time jbl and my gosh, does he have the Black Bart stories? You know, so. [00:20:23] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. Black Bar, Black Bart. Been there and done that. [00:20:27] Speaker C: I loved the John Tatum one. Hollywood John Tatum. I really liked that show. And didn't you have Paul Ellering? Was that wasn't that. I did. [00:20:38] Speaker A: He was the release. Right. Right before Tatum and. Yeah, what a. What a class. [00:20:43] Speaker C: I listened to a bunch of them right there close together, you know, and I loved both of those. And Jim Brunzell too. I like that one too. [00:20:51] Speaker A: Yeah, Jim was a class act. Next thing I know, he asked me for my address, sent me and William Foxy a care package and it's all. He did a CD with Bruce Springsteen, sent me that and sent me his book and all. And so yeah, some of these guys have just really been wonderful. Coco. You know, for the grace of the podcast, I've become great friends with Coco. Shane Russell. [00:21:13] Speaker C: Just you talk about Union City, Tennessee, Cocoa where, right. [00:21:18] Speaker A: Union City's favorite son, Coco, beware. [00:21:21] Speaker C: Hey now you mentioned these guys, Willie and Foxy. Tell everybody who they are. [00:21:27] Speaker A: Willie is. His real name is William Brooks. He's a true, true American hero. He's a purple heart recipient. Known him since, since junior high and wrestling was always our connection. Say you know, after high school, you know how it is, everybody goes lives their lives and goes their own ways and all. But you know, anytime I'd run into him, that's a topic that would always come up and bring us back together. I can rem, you know, if I'd see him at a restaurant or a bar or you know, just grocery store or anything, you know, we'd always wrestling always, you know, kind of, you know, came back. So he goes by Willie B. On the podcast. I kind of made a post right when I was starting the podcast and just kind of threw it out there and next thing I know, he sent me a message and said, hey man, if you're looking ever looking for a co host or a, a right hand man, a wingman, he said, I'm in. And I really didn't know how much, you know, serious he was being at the time, but I said, hey man, are you really being serious? He's kind of you kind of pulling, you ribbing me, you pulling up, pulling my leg here, pulling my chain. Are you really in or. And he said, absolutely, man. He said if you, you kick this thing off, I'd be honored to be your co host. So. And as, as they say, the rest is history on that. And Foxy, aka Melissa McCall, she's my wonderful, beautiful, sweet wife, my best friend in life and she's, she's been through with me through thick and thin and I just, I can't say enough good things about it. I love you, babe. When you hear this, I love you baby. And you know you mean the world to me and I appreciate, I appreciate everything you do for me family and I just, I got nothing but mad love and you know, from my heart for you, baby. And you're, you're, you're just, you're, you're top flight in My book. Your first. Your first class act, sweetheart. [00:23:05] Speaker C: Man. Three and a half years, over 70 episodes. I mean, you guys have done a lot of really good work. And like you say, it's going to remain out there for people to enjoy. I'm sure people are going to continue to discover it. And that. That relationship. I wanted to ask you that because that relationship between you and Melissa on the. Is pretty unique and special and so authentic, you know, I mean, you can feel it, like when you say that about I love you, baby and all that. You can feel that through the show, how much you guys care about each other. That comes through. [00:23:39] Speaker A: Well, I really appreciate that. And speaking of that, you know, we've been fortunate. We've actually, over the last couple years, you know, just not really planned it out, but you know how it is, scheduling interviews and working with everybody. I know one anniversary you had, and we had, you know, Fred Ottman on there celebrated an anniversary. Then the next annivers was Pat Tanaka, and we just had a. I don't know if you've heard that episode, but that was a trip. That was a blast right there. Pat. Pat is quite the. Pratt is quite the character, and we had so much fun with Pat. [00:24:07] Speaker C: So. Yeah, I. I haven't heard that one, but I want to hear it. I can't. I got so many things going on and so much stuff to do. I can only so many hours in the day, but I've still got that one that I want to listen to. But I, you know, I started in the Tennessee territory. I live in Western Kentucky now, and I grew up here and that I became a fan in 1972 and when I was nine. And so by the time the 80s came around and early 90s, I mean, I was in my late 20s to early 30s when you had the Paul diamond and Pat Tanaka tag team and all. I just thought those guys were phenomenal. And it's good to hear. I can't wait to listen to the episode because it's good to hear that Pat's got that kind of personality. [00:24:54] Speaker A: You know, I can't forget about having my childhood heroes on there as well. PG13, JC Ice and Wolfie D. Jamie's actually become like a really good friend of the family. So that's. He actually sent Melissa care. I don't know if you saw by the graces of social media, but he sent Melissa a care package this week. And it was just really, you know, intriguing and fun to watch her face light up to open that. So he. He had told. He had told Me a while back that he had a foxy necklace. He said, you know, mayor, that, you know, back in my time, guys used to be foxy too, not just a lad. So he said, I think it's time for the real foxy to appreciate this stuff. So he sent her a necklace, a robe, sent an autograph picture of PG13. And the running joke is that, you know, foxy runs everything. And I'm just that guy and I ride her coattail. So he was sure to put that in writing on, on a couple spots on the care package. Do you know that foxy and that guy. [00:25:46] Speaker C: So, yeah, that reminds me, there was a. There was a movie that came out in the early 70s with that beautiful African American lady star. I can't think of her name right now, but Foxy Brown. Foxy Brown. That was a huge catchphrase back then. I tell you, another episode I really liked because he's not on too many podcasts. I would really love to have him on mine someday. Danny Davis was on your show, right? [00:26:17] Speaker A: Yeah, that was a hard. That was a hard one to pull off. And speaking of that, Tony, it's been. Some of this has been just absolutely exhausting the audience and fans and the average person doesn't realize, and you can attest to this, doesn't realize how much work go into this. I mean, I've got, first of all, I've got to get a contact on the guy that's hard enough in itself. Then I've got to win the guy over. I've got to get him scheduled. I've got to do hours and, you know, countless, you know, research and over prepare, and then I've got to do the technical side upload everything. Then I got to promote it. Then I got to go, you know, it's like a wrestler. I got it then right back to the. Get in the car and go right back to the next town. You know, there's, there's, there's no sleep in this. You know, if you really have a drive and passion and you want to. You want to be successful and it. To me, it's, it's not just been a podcast. It's been like a. It's. It's been a passion project, if you will. You know, I just, I respect and love these guys so much, and I just want the world to never forget about him. And all the, all the sacrifices, all the time away from families, the injuries. People don't realize that the hell these guys went through just so we could be entertained on, you know, Saturday mornings. Or go to the Coliseum or hit a. Hit a spot show in a town near you. You know, these guys have really made some huge sacrifices for us, and I think that we should honor and really appreciate these guys. [00:27:35] Speaker C: Man, I couldn't say it any better than that. And that was really kind of the driving force for me, starting the pro wrestling time tunnel, because my generation was the one before yours, and. And I wanted to honor and keep the memories alive of a lot of stuff in the territory era that you can't watch on video. You know, that was before videotape, where it's slowly but surely the people that were around them. We just lost Dennis Condrey. We just lost Fred Curry. We're losing the guys from that. At least they started in that era. And I just wanted to call attention to them. We just did a big series on the Roy Welch family, on the Briscoe and Bradshaw show, and I saw that. [00:28:23] Speaker A: Nice work. [00:28:24] Speaker C: Yeah, we just had George Goulis on. Speaking of guys, hard to get. Right, Right. But you're right. It's a little bit like being the promoter and the booker and the main event star all rolled into one. You're. You're booking the matches, you're booking the talent, you're scheduling the show, you're setting up the ring, you're selling the pop popcorn, you're wrestling in the main event. That's. That's a little bit what running a podcast is like. [00:28:50] Speaker A: Well, Willie and. Willie and Foxy are the main event in the stars. I'm just a gimmick, you know, so there we go. Yeah, we'll go and get that. Get that out there. [00:28:57] Speaker C: Well, let me just tell you right now, you and Melissa are no gimmick, man. So it's a nice little. It's a nice little combination that reminds you of a family. You know, when I listen to you guys, all four of you, you know, it's like I'm having breakfast with you or something at the breakfast table, you know, or the dinner table or something. [00:29:18] Speaker A: Thank you so much for saying that, Tony, because that was the vision. When I started this, you know, I had to figure out how. What direction I wanted to go in this and what feel I was trying to, you know, come across to the audience. And I wanted to seem like it was just a couple friends sitting around talking about wrestling. That's why if you notice mine, mine is under. Mine is way under. Produced on purpose. That's not. That's not about being lazy. That's not about not being tech savvy. Anything I don't, I get straight to the point. I just hit the button, we do an intro. I'm not, you know, and, and not to brag, but I think I'm one of the top independent podcasters in the nation. I run no ads, no sponsors, no sponsorships. I have no financial backing. I don't make a dime about from this. And I think that's what's landed me some of these huge interviews as well. That's part of my selling pitch, you know, and my, my presentation that, hey, that. I'm not trying to exploit you. I'm not trying to get rich off you. I'm not trying to make a dime. I'm not paying my bills off of you, bro. Simply want to talk to you because I care about you. I want your story to be out there and I want the, I want the world to hear it. It's not. I'm not paying my light bill by having you on my podcast. I've, I've been blessed and you know, I have other financial endeavors how I, you know, how I make, make my living and support my family and I don't have to rely on this podcast to make a dime. So I've been very fortunate and blessed in that aspect. And I think a lot of these guys have been more willing to do it, you know. You know, with economies of scale, if I made money, I wouldn't mind, you know, sharing. I think it'd only be right to, you know, pay a percentage or something. But hey, it' not, it's not a monetary project. It's. It's a passion project. [00:30:51] Speaker C: Yeah, man, I love that. I mean, because it comes across, like I said, and it's, it's raw. You know, not to borrow a phrase from wwe, but your show is real raw. But it's not just raw. It's authentic, you know, and what you [00:31:05] Speaker A: see is, and I don't know how many people realize this, what you see is what you get. It's also reality based. I've never, Tony, I've never edited one episode. People are so surprised to hear that I haven't. It's just, you know, I've had guys that, you know, they might have. Have to use the restroom or something. Me and Willie, I just keep on talking, you know, it's just, Just come [00:31:24] Speaker C: back when you're finished. Just come back when you're finished. [00:31:26] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. I mean, that happened with Ken Patera. He went and just. Me and Willie just kept on, you know, kept on talking. [00:31:31] Speaker C: Oh, man, that's another one. I I really like that show, and I. I really want to get Ken on because he's raw, you know, I [00:31:39] Speaker A: mean, he's just absolutely Ken. [00:31:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:41] Speaker A: That you would enjoy that. Ken's got some really good stories. He was, as you. As you recall from listening to the episode, he was roommates with Ric Flair. You know, he's got some good stories. [00:31:49] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I bet. So. So let's talk about. Aside from the podcast, what was your first experiences that got you liking wrestling? [00:32:02] Speaker A: I was probably around 8 years old or whatever. I just, you know, I remember, you know, turning on, you know, for the fans. I live in Horn Lake, Mississippi. I grew up in South Haven, Mississippi. I currently reside in Horn Lake, Mississippi. They're Twin Cities, but, you know, the geography lesson. We live. I live 10 minutes south from Memphis, Tennessee. So, you know, watching. Watch Channel 5, you know, wrestling on Saturday mornings coming from 1960 Union Avenue. WMC. WMC Channel 5. And, you know, those guys would, after the show went off, you know, Saturday afternoons, and all those guys were known to make a lot of appearances in the area. Far be car lots, grocery stores, or, you know, me and my buddies, we'd be on the phone with each other, be like, hey, you just saw Jerry Lawlers coming to Basic Foods down there at Bullfrog Corner. Which one of our dad's uncle mom friends gonna take us? We got to get this lined up real quick. Jerry said he'll be there from one to three to go. So, you know, and, you know, he'd have, like, you know, Bill Dundee and, you know, Jeff Jarrett, Robert Fuller, you know, you know, the Mid South Fair, right at the Mid South Coliseum. They had a flea market there every couple times a month. And the Mid South Fair would come once a year. And that's. That's the night I'd always, you know, work it out where my, you know, get my folks to take me or go with somebody else's, you know, family or something. That's the night I always wanted to go. When they had, you know, wrestling at the Mid South Fair, I can remember very vividly in my mind, the main event was Bul Payne against Jerry Lawler. They had right there. Then, for the life of me, I can't remember. I took a picture with Jeff Jarrett and Robert Fuller. They were the USWA World Tag Team Champions at the time. I cannot recall who they wrestle, but I remember seeing Bull Payne, Jerry Lawler, Jeff Jarrett, Robert Fuller at the Mid South Fair. [00:33:44] Speaker C: Is that your favorite memory or is there another one? Because, I mean, you Seem really passionate about that one. Is there another man you got? [00:33:52] Speaker A: Oh, there's. There's been. There's. There's been plenty. I mean, you know, we. I remember going to my dad when. You recall when the. When the Memphis wrestling changed from the Mid South Coliseum to the Pipkin Building. [00:34:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:34:04] Speaker A: So we're going up there to get tickets held downtown. Bruno's the one selling tickets. I was like, dad, why is Bruno selling tickets? He's on TV as a kid. I didn't. I didn't understand any of that. But, yeah, just seeing. Seeing Jimmy Hart, Jerry Lawler at the. At the car lots, you know, giving away tickets, promoting. I think one of my favorite things to do was in 2011 was going to the. The Memphis or or theater to see the premiere of Memphis Heat. You had Lance Russell there, Dave Brown, Jerry Jarrett, Bill Dundee, Jerry Lawler. That was a really, really fun night, you know, and everybody was, you know, really cool, happy and excited for the premiere of that movie. [00:34:42] Speaker C: Those are things. [00:34:42] Speaker A: What do you think? What'd you think about Memphis Heat, Tony? [00:34:45] Speaker C: Those are things that live with us for a lifetime. I. I'm getting. I'm gonna have lunch today with my best friend since I was 6 years old, and we spent so many much time in high school going to wrestling. And when I sit down to have lunch with him today, the first thing that we will start. Or I'll get in the truck to go to lunch today with him, and the first thing we'll do is start talking about, laughing about wrestling. I was telling a story the other day about the first time I ever saw a female mud match. Brenda Britton was in it at the National Guard Armory in Paducah. And that memory just came flooding back, so vivid. I loved. [00:35:22] Speaker A: I don't care what anybody says. Wrestling brings people together in all shapes, forms all across the. [00:35:27] Speaker C: It does, you know, and that was the favorite thing about it, because these three guys, these three high schoolers, we were sophomores, just barely had our driver's license, but we'd go to the National Guard Armory on Friday night, or we'd go to Evansville Coliseum on Wednesday night and know everybody there. You know, I mean, over time, we'd get to know them, and everybody sat in the same place and everybody was always there. And it was almost like a family reunion every single week. [00:35:56] Speaker A: Okay, we got. We got to jump back. We got to jump back for a second because it just hit me. You asked me what one of my favorite moments was. Okay, so my oldest son, he moved to. He moved with his family. And he was about three years old, moved to Tampa, Florida. So he would come in, you know, spring break, summer. He'd, he'd fly. I'd fly, man. And he'd spend like the whole summer with me. And also that's one of the things we used to do was go, you know, I'd introduce him to him. He really liked it. Memphis wrestling. He know, he, you know, and he saw my passion all. He's like, he's. Well this, you know, dad loves it so much. Let me, let me get into it and give it a try too. So I remember like it was yesterday. It was. They were having a Memphis wrestling show at, at Minglewood hall in Memphis. And we walked up to Jerry Lawler and, and I was, I was talking to, talking to Jerry and all. And he looked at my son, he's like, yeah, we know who your dad is. We see him, we see him here, you know, around here all the time. And I thought that was so cool. And I remember coming home and I could hear my son and back bedroom talking to one of his buddies. Hey, man, Jerry Lawler knows who my dad is. [00:37:00] Speaker B: Awesome. [00:37:00] Speaker A: I just, I just, I just thought that was so cool that, you know, that. And I never knew. I mean, it's not like I was that guy. I mean, I never tried to overstep my boundary or be anything like that. I'd go around, but I didn't try to overdo it or anything. So I had no idea that Jerry Lawler would even know who I am. But yeah, he looked right at my son and said, yeah, we know exactly who your dad is. We see it, we see him around the shows. [00:37:20] Speaker C: I, I made me feel good. [00:37:21] Speaker A: Good. [00:37:22] Speaker C: Two things that stuck out to me. Well, I want to answer your question and also one thing stuck out to me while ago and it's why I love the south so much. [00:37:31] Speaker B: But. [00:37:31] Speaker C: Bullfrog Corner. Where's Bullfrog Corner again? [00:37:36] Speaker A: It's a, it's an intersection in Horn Lake. It's just, that's what it's always been called. [00:37:41] Speaker C: I love it, man. [00:37:42] Speaker A: Businesses and. Yeah, that's. [00:37:43] Speaker C: I mean, when you're from a place that has a place named Bullfrog Corner, that's. That's like living up here in western Kentucky and having Monkey's eyebrow and Possum Trot, man. I mean, I just, I love those little names. [00:37:59] Speaker A: I don't know what it was about it, but at one time, statistically Bullfrog Corner was like the, the most accident prone intersection in the whole State of Mississippi. And Melissa has actually had a wreck at Bullfrog Corner. It was a few years ago. Some lady just, just wasn't paying attention. Just straight up like T boned her and it. So, yeah, those, so, yeah, Bullfrog Corner holds a lot of memories. I've actually met Jerry Lawler at a grocery store of Bullfrog Corner. [00:38:25] Speaker C: So I actually, I, I, you know, when I did the Roy Welch series for stories with Briscoe and Bradshaw, I just, I was covered up here in research on the Welch family. And one of the pieces of research that I thoroughly dug into was the Memphis Heat dvd. And there's an extra on there with Billy Wicks talking about the whole Mario Galinto and Jerry Jarrett incident. Yeah, that's probably my favorite part. Was not really in the movie. It was an extra thing that they put on the disc. But I loved it, man. I mean, Tennessee wrestling is at the heart and soul of my roots in wrestling. So almost anything that's done to preserve it or honor it, it. I'm all for it, man. [00:39:10] Speaker A: Big shout out to my good friend, you know, Shane Russell. He actually sent me a care package one time. Sent us a shirt of his dad, sent us many pictures of his dad, and actually gave me a, A still, still sealed in the package, a Memphis Heat dvd. I called, I said, shane, do you know what you're doing? He's like, what? I said, do you need this back? Uh, you should check what these go unsealed on ebay. Are you sure I can have this? He said, of course, John. I said, I just, I didn't know if you, if you looked and see what these are going for these days, brother, but I so appreciate it, man. [00:39:40] Speaker C: Now that you have been doing this for a while and you, you, we're sitting here talking about some fantastic memories, but if you could go back to a young John McCall when all of this was going on, what's some advice you would have given yourself that you should have experienced or done back in those fun days? [00:40:01] Speaker A: Hang on to that little goofy merch I would get at the Mid South Coliseum that I thought was just kind of at the time, like I outgrew it and kind of childish or tacky or something. And all the, you know, I would have been more organized keeping, keeping all my pictures because I probably, I mean, I've, I've been taking pictures with Jerry since I've been 8 years old, so I probably, I don't, Tony, I don't even know how many pictures I have. And you know how you know how life happens. You know, I, you know, I don't, I don't have those anymore and I've just got a couple of those. I would, I would give anything just to see from start to finish, like every picture I've ever taken with Lawler, you know, through the tran, you know, through the sands of time, if you [00:40:39] Speaker C: will, will go into the, going to the PAFO ICW promotion, because I was going to both Jarrett's shows and PAFO shows there from 78 till the PAFOs closed down and came over and worked for the Jarrett's. But if I would have kept every little thing that I would have gotten, all the programs, all the flyers, all the pieces of paper, all the gimmicks that they handed out, I wish I would have kept an organized, all that stuff. Stuff. I, I, I totally am on board with you on that. [00:41:08] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:41:09] Speaker C: What, what if the wrestling business has taught you anything, what's the best lesson you've gotten from it? [00:41:21] Speaker A: There's so much most, most cannot be trusted. There's so much, there's so much jealousy. There's so much. I don't know. It's, it's, it's, I don't, I don't even know really how to describe it. It's just, oh, I've. [00:41:35] Speaker C: Some of these guys, I've experienced it. I've experienced it. [00:41:40] Speaker A: And just like with some of these podcasters, it's just, it's crazy. There's so much, there's so much jealousy. There's so much like just worrying about what the other guy's doing. It's just, it's, it's that we could do it, we could do a whole episode on that, Tony. We really could. [00:41:55] Speaker C: You know, you bring up such a great point, and it's going to give me an opportunity to share with you just a personal philosophy that I developed a long time ago because when I first got into the broadcasting business years ago, when I figured out sports wasn't going to be an option, being a younger guy and getting a bunch, taking advantage of a lot of opportunities and having a lot of great blessings coming my way, and there being so many more older people around than me caused me to get a lot of pressure, right. And all that. And I just determined back then, and I've lived my life this way. I only compete with myself. I only try to, I only try to be better today than I was yesterday. I only try to be a better me tomorrow than I was today. And I only try to do a better show next week than I did this week. I let everything else just take care of itself. And as many good relationships as I can form, like with you and Melissa and people like you guys, the bridge. The richer and wealthier I am because I'm able to have relationships with you guys, with Dave Dynasty, with Bob Smith, with Brian R. Solomon, with all the guys that come on my show on a regular basis. The more relationships that I have and good connections like George Shire and people. I mean, that makes me a wealthy guy in my estimate. [00:43:27] Speaker B: Well, I feel. [00:43:27] Speaker A: I feel the same way about. About you guys and all too, because my ultimate goal is I want to become a true wrestling historian. I've got over. In the last couple of months, I purchased. I've got over 20 books on Memphis wrestling. I just finished reading Bill Dundee's autobiography. I'm on Jerry Jarrett's the Best of Times. Made a. Made a good friendship with Mark James. I'm allowed, you know, to pick his brain and question him. And I feel like just on journey, like, surrounding myself with, you know, people like yourself, Mark James, Bob Smith, that, you know, that it just betters me. And I never want to get complacent. I don't never want to think I'm the smartest guy in the room, and I just want to keep on learning and trying to be the best I can be in one day. You know, it's no offense to anybody else, but just through the. Through the grace of the way natural time flows that not everybody will always be here. So, you know, God keeps me on this earth. I would like to be one of the. Go to, you know, you know, Memphis wrestling, you know, historians one day. So I'm. I'm in training for that. And I'm trying. I take. I've been taking a lot of notes, reading my book, so I would really, you know, like to be well versed in that, and it really helps me, you know, like you said, these. These friendships and, you know, these connections and, you know, you know, getting to spend time with people like yourself, the people that are older than me, the people that have been there, done that, have more knowledge, have more experience, you know, so it's really. That's really been my blessing to get to, you know, hook up with you guys and sit under the learning tree. So I want to personally thank you, you know, for having me and the connection that we've made. [00:45:00] Speaker C: Yeah, it's fantastic, John, you know, and you're already well on your way with just all the fantastic people that you, you know, especially people that are not around anymore that have passed on, that have had interactions with you and you have all that recorded and you've got all these conversations and stories from these people. I mean that's a rich vault of information and stuff that you know is not readily available. And so you've already got a good start on it. [00:45:27] Speaker A: Man, I was just, I, I couldn't, I couldn't have spoke any truer words because like you said, you hit the nail on the head with all these stories and conversations. It's not stuff you'll find on Wikipedia. It's not stuff you'll find on the Internet. And I've learned so many times through my research that Wikipedia is only good as the mark who wrote it. You know, I mean a lot of these guys have, have clarified like no, that that didn't happen or that that didn't go down like that. So it's really awesome to be able to get a first hand account of what really went story from, you know, you know, to hear it straight from the horse's mouth. [00:46:01] Speaker C: If you will now take Melissa, your wife McCall, or as we know her as Foxy, let's just sit her over to the side here for a second. And I want to ask you who's your favorite person that you've ever had in your life? [00:46:18] Speaker A: The most favorite person I've ever had besides Melissa. [00:46:21] Speaker C: We're going to set her to the side because we know that's going to be the answer, right? So we'll put her over here in a special category. But outside of her, who's the most important person or your favorite person or person who has really influenced you that you've been connected with or come across so far in your life? [00:46:41] Speaker A: Jesus. [00:46:42] Speaker C: Oh man, what a great answer. And how is he? [00:46:47] Speaker A: He never forsakes me, he never lets me walk alone. I mean we all face these trials and tribulations in life, but I always try to stay positive and I try to, you know, let everybod know that we're not as smart as we might think we are. We can't fathom like what the true plan is. And we wasn't you know, privy enough to, to get a brain that would even fractionally enough understand about the plan and the work and everything like that. So I'll try not to, I try not to question, you know, you know too much. There's a lot of people that they just spend their whole life on a questioning journey. I, you know, I focus more, I focus less on religion and man and I focus more on the relationship with God. [00:47:26] Speaker C: So, so yeah, that's awesome. Now, okay, so we got. [00:47:29] Speaker A: I have some very. And, and, and I have some very important people in my life. I can't, you know, I'm like, I've been blessed. I'm like Ric Flair. I've always had a lot of good horsemen around me, you know, so I've got some wonderful friends, like, you know, I think the world of Willie B. My friend Clay Jones, Matt Mills, Tim Razor, Will Duran. You know, I've got some, I've got some, you know, really good friends that, you know, I've always been there and through thick and thin that, that, you know, that I can all I can always count on. [00:47:56] Speaker C: So. [00:47:56] Speaker A: I love you guys. [00:47:57] Speaker C: I really, I think that's awesome and I hope I can fit myself in there some way, so. [00:48:04] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:48:05] Speaker C: Now let's set. We'll set Melissa over to the side, and we'll set Jesus over to the side. Who would you say has been your biggest hero? [00:48:16] Speaker A: Gary Lawler. [00:48:17] Speaker C: Okay. And I wanted to get to that. Now, how did you first come across be connected with or get with Jerry Lawler? [00:48:26] Speaker A: It's just, you know, through the graces of, you know, like the, the TV and all and just, you know, being around the wrestling scene and getting to know him. And he also, you know, he's responsible for bringing in my all time favorite wrestler in this world, Brian Christopher Lawler. Brian Christopher is my all time favorite wrestler. And it's a. And it's such an irony. I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried. Tony. My second son was Logan Christopher McCall. He was purposely named after Brian Christopher. And you know, the Internet wasn't hu. Too huge at that time, so we didn't have. We wouldn't privilege all the information that we have now. But later years, I learned that Brian and my son share the exact same birthday of January 10th. [00:49:07] Speaker C: Wow. [00:49:08] Speaker A: And my son would ultimately tragically pass away on Jerry Lawler's birthday. So my son was named after Brian Crispr. They shared the same birthday. And my son would pass away on Jerry Lawler's birthday. Tony, how crazy is that? [00:49:22] Speaker C: Wow. I don't believe in coincidences. [00:49:26] Speaker A: That's what Melissa says. That's what she always says. And actually, during the interview, I told Jerry that story and I said, you know, I've heard, I've heard, when I tell people that Jerry, they either say that we got the biggest connection ever. I need to get the hell away from you, brother. You know, it's like, you know, it's one of the two you know, but I said, king, I'd like to go with, you know, the former versus the latter. I'd like to think that we gotta, you know, we're all. We're all connected to the hip brother now. [00:49:50] Speaker C: Now you probably know better than anybody else because I'm sure you probably speak. Speak with Jerry from time to time, but how's he doing? [00:49:58] Speaker A: We actually got to speak to him on the phone this week and he sounded really good. He really did. His memory sounded good. And I just, you know, it was. It was such a huge, huge day and it still seems surreal and it was. I'm not gonna lie, Tony. It was a little overwhelming. Just that the way it all came about is. So I've been Work, you know, that's. That'd been the ultimate goal through. I started this podcast. If you cover Memphis wrestling, you'd be crazy not. Not to have Jerry Lawler on the show. That would just. Why even do it? You know, that should be to me, the ultimate goal. That's what I always work for. So, you know, do everybody knows. Do you know, the. The health issues and stuff like that? It just. I didn't think it was ever going to come about. I almost thought that, you know, Father Time had passed us up on that and it was no longer going to be a be an option. But I heard he was doing pretty well. And long story short, Shane Rose Russell brought him down to the, you know, called him and said that we're. He has a good friend of mine and said, you know, brought him down to the house. So Melissa's favorite thing. People don't know my favorite thing is wrestling. Melissa's favorite thing is Coke memory, Coca Cola memorabilia. [00:51:08] Speaker C: Oh, really? [00:51:08] Speaker A: So who has the. Who who do we know that has the best collection of Coke memorabilia? So Lawler comes down, we did the interview. Every. Everything is. Is great. So he comes out of the studio and Melissa's like, hey, Jerry, can I have a favor? He said, yes, sure, sweetheart. She said, you know, my grandfather, you know, he. He's recently had some health issues, been put on hospice. He's one of your biggest fans, you know, would you mind speaking, you know, come to speak to him? And he was like, no. So he goes and speaks to Wayne and all, and Wayne lights up like a Christmas tree. It was beautiful to. Beautiful to see. And then. And you know, he comes out and she was like, jerry, I got one more favor. And he was like, what's that? She's like, you know, I would do anything to get to be able to See your. Your coat collection. And he, he kind of, you know, he looked at her and said, well, you know, anytime you want to, sweetheart. And she just kind of, you know, somebody. You know how people just kind of laugh and make a little joke. She's like, well, Jerry, you know, I'd come right now if it was cool. And he looked at her and said, well. He said, well, come on. He said, follow us back to the house. And also we got to go. And just, just, just me, Melissa and Jerry for like an hour and a half, just one on one at his house. He took us through every room, every attic. Man, what a nice, sweet host Jerry was that day. [00:52:26] Speaker C: And he's just overall a good. He's just overall a good human, you know. [00:52:31] Speaker A: Yeah, he was. He. He was so nice and gracious and sweet to us. So like I said, it was just kind of almost like a. As exciting as it was, it was almost overwhelming, you know, to the average fan to not only, only for Jerry Lawler to come to your house that day. The next thing, next thing you know, you're looking up and you're back at his house, you know, on a royal tour. So I just wanted to, you know, and all of it happened so quick, so I just wanted to personally thank him and let him know how much that meant from the bottom of our heart. So I'd called, I called his. His. His caretaker and personal assistant, Ms. Karen, that we've also become close, and just said, hey, Ms. Karen, are you around Jerry today? That's really been on my heart to thank him. And she said, he's on the phone. And next thing I know, my phone rang and, you know, Melissa was by me, so we both got to speak to him and just thank him. And he was. He was so nice. And he told me that he thought we did such a great job on the interview and he really had a good time. And I think that meant so much to me, Tony, for just, you know, to hear him say that he really enjoyed it and I did a good job. I mean, what more could I ask for on this journey? [00:53:31] Speaker C: We are visiting with John Mayer McCall and we're talking about his live and career in pro wrestling and talking about his program. He's got a couple of more episodes he's going to release, and then he's going to take a pause. We don't know how long the pause will be. I can't sit here and talk to him for 45 minutes and believe that he is really going to be gone. He's. He's. Coming back. This is a podcast. Retirements can sometimes be like wrestler retirements. But hey, John, you're really active on Facebook and your social media. Tell everybody where they can find you if they don't already know. I'm sure they already know, but let's tell them anyway. [00:54:12] Speaker A: John, John, Mayor McCall on Facebook. That's the. If you would ever want to send me an email, it's mayor. Mayor McCall dot com. You can not, not to brag or anything, but come on, man. [00:54:25] Speaker C: Come on. [00:54:26] Speaker A: Okay, you can type. [00:54:27] Speaker C: Do the promo. Do the promo. Do the promo. [00:54:30] Speaker A: Hey, if you want to get in touch with Mayor McCall, baby, all you got to do is pick up that phone, type in Mayor McCall at Google, and I'm gonna come right up. You're gon my episodes. All my accomplishments, all my achievements, all the big things, you know, spin the wheel, make the deal. All the big things that we've done, you know, in wrestling and around and you know, check us out if you're a big fan of old school wrestling. You can't go wrong. We're wrestling. Talk with Mayor McCall. Where the Legends live, baby. Check us out. [00:54:54] Speaker C: That's fantastic, man. Thank you so much for doing that. I mean, you, you guys, will it be. And of course, Foxy, your wife Melissa. And as I told you before we went on today, you guys are going to be in and this is something people say all the time, but I don't just say it. I really mean it. You are going to be on my mind and you're going to be in my prayers too, my man. I mean, I'm excited about what the future holds for you too. I think you still got a lot of stuff you have yet to do in life and in wrestling. So thank you for spending the some time with me today. I mean, I really, really have enjoyed it. Something I really been wanting to do and I'm glad we got to do it today. [00:55:37] Speaker A: Like, like Doc Holliday set on Tombstone told Johnny Ringo, I'm just in my prime. Johnny Ringo. [00:55:44] Speaker C: That, that scene in Lonesome Dove where Robert Duvall is passing away, where he says, it's been a hell of a party, hadn't it? I mean, so that's, that's what we're living and it's a good thing. And I appreciate you coming on today, John. [00:55:59] Speaker A: The honor and pleasure has been all mine, Tony. And I can't appreciate you enough for having me and thanking them, thanking enough of me to want to have me as a guest. I know that you do big things and you have a. You're on a wonderful. You've embarked on a wonderful journey yourself. And I enjoy and respect what you do. And it's been, you know, and I look forward for us to, you know, continue to have a friendship. And, you know, I'd love to, you know, pick your brain sometime and just, you know, send it to your learning tree as well. And, you know, so let's. [00:56:26] Speaker C: Let's. When Melissa gets feeling a little bit better, let's just plan on getting together sometime. We'll. We'll break some bread and talk some wrestling and have some fun. How's that? [00:56:36] Speaker A: We don't get any better than that. My book brother [00:56:41] Speaker C: was sitting around talking with a couple of my best buddies who like to talk about wrestling. Steve Gianna Rally and Brian Solomon. And it's WrestleMania weekend, fellas, and we've got big, big things coming up this weekend all the way from Friday night through, I guess, Tuesday night now, I guess Tuesday is, you know, because nxt, I guess, is on Tuesday night. Do they count that, too, as part of the weekend? [00:57:06] Speaker B: I think they do. I think they do. Yeah. So they don't count smackdown. Poor smackdown gets stranded on Friday. [00:57:12] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:57:13] Speaker C: I want to zero in on the hall of Fame, for sure, in our discussion, but I want to talk about WrestleMania overall, just as a. Just as a concept, because it's so rooted in pro wrestling history, which is what this show is all about. But this show and me, primarily about two paradigm shifts back in wrestling history. And I think that's what's really interesting, as I am a very casual, very casual watcher and fan of today's product. But I've been fortunate in my whole lifetime as a wrestling fan to see two big paradigm shifts in the wrestling business. The first one was the territories going to the national expansion. That was a paradigm shift that was difficult for fans to adjust to and figure out. And some, of course, love loved it. I mean, Hulkamania was the biggest thing going in 1985. And as that shift was happening and as new human beings are born into wrestling fandom, that becomes the foundation of what they look at as the paradigm of professional wrestling. And let me just say the word paradigm is just a big scientific word for your viewpoint and the box that you put yourself in with the lines and boundaries that you draw around things that you perceive. And I definitely grew up with the foundation of the territories. Then the national expansion was very difficult for me to transition to. And now we're going through another paradigm shift in the wrestling business to a global situation where We've got companies that are worldwide and global. Wwe, of course, being the major player there. And I think what's painful is at times, and that's why I'm, as a. As a lapsed casual fan of today's product. I don't have as much pain as I think a lot of people feel who are still trying to put the paradigm of today into the box of yesterday day. And that's the thing about paradigm shifts, is once they take place, they don't reverse themselves. They just continue going on like a. Like a reptile that's shedding skin. It's sort of that old paradigm is shed and the new one plays out until it's time to shed and go to another one. And every 20 or 30 years we have this. And I don't know, am I making sense to you guys at all, the way I'm kind of leading into this, or just babbling? [01:00:03] Speaker B: No, I think absolutely you are. And sometimes, like, we've all talked about this on our own shows and various shows, it's like the business changes so much that at a certain point you have to even ask the question, is it even the same business anymore? And we've all asked ourselves a question of, am I still a fan of this? Should I be? What? You know, what do I do with this? And I've talked about it, and I think you guys will appreciate this, and especially Steve. I'll try to put some Yankees reference in here, but it's like, to me, because I do still follow it, and a lot of it is because I cover it, so I sort of am forced to, but I still follow it. And I kind of liken it to when you have a baseball team or any kind of team that you follow, even when they're horrible, you keep watching. Even when you're asking yourself, why am I still watching this? You keep watching because they're your team, it's your thing. And. And not only that, but the change. I'll give you an example. My grandfather was a Yankees fan from when he was, well, a kid, when it was Babe Ruth playing. And he was a fan as an old man watching Derek Jeter play. Now, how incredibly different is the sport is the experience of being a fan following the sport? There wasn't even television when he started following the Yankees, but he still stayed as a baseball fan. And, you know, even when he would say. He would often and say the best time, you know, was like the 40s, 50s, you had DiMaggio and Mickey Mantle and all these things happening. Yogi Berra and they were unstoppable. And the Dodgers rivalry. But he would say, you know, I still watch baseball, I still enjoy putting the game on, and that's that. I sort of liken it to that, I guess, you know, if that answers the question. [01:01:47] Speaker C: Well, I had lunch with one of my best friends. We were friends from the time we were six years old old. And there was another friend who now lives in Missouri, so we don't see him as often. But my friend and I, we try to go to lunch once a month. And we went on Friday and he said, man, he goes, I'm just amazed on social media at how you've blown up as this wrestling person, because, I mean, he's known me my whole life and of course he and I used to go to matches when we were in high school. He's. He and my other friend are the guys I went to the ICW matches and the Jarrett matches with. And he said, I haven't been to a wrestling match till since you. And I went. And he go, I haven't watched it on tv. I haven't been to a live event since whenever the last one we went to was. And I'm still kind of a wrestling person, you know, I just have been my whole life to your point, you know, and there are things that get me excited when I watch them today. There's pieces like little, little pieces like the, the Roman punk stuff gets me excited. [01:02:58] Speaker B: It is very good stuff. [01:02:59] Speaker A: Yes. [01:03:00] Speaker C: But I also have fast forward. And that's another thing that's changed is instead of being appointment media where you didn't miss it because. Because you had no way to see it. Tim Deals and I were talking about that the other day on the Dennis Condri show. And we were both in our teens in 1976, when Dennis and Phil Hickerson were a tag team. And we were talking about how our families did never went on vacation, but in 1976 we were going on vacation. And the biggest thing I worried about was I'm going to miss wrestling. And there's no way to get it in Arizona where we were going, going, you know, because our local television was not going to be there and we wouldn't know what happened. And he talked about when he did, he made his mom take notes on the wrestling show so. So she would. Could give him the rundown when he got back from his band trip or whatever he went on. [01:03:56] Speaker B: But I have to confess, Even in the 90s, I would very often tape the shows so that I could fast forward through the things I didn't want to see. Even back in then, I still was. Was very often watching the show after the fact. You know what I mean? But I know what you mean because I'll never forget this. There was the great. One of the Great American Bash pay per views happened on the day of my wedding. And I. I made very sure not to say one word about it out loud because I don't think that there would have been a wedding if I had complained. [01:04:29] Speaker C: That's where you gotta. You gotta have, man, discipline, man. [01:04:32] Speaker B: But I'm not gonna lie and say in the back of my head, boy, I'm gonna have to find out what happened with Master P. I guess I'm gonna have to look online tomorrow or something. You know, it's always in there. It's always in there. [01:04:42] Speaker C: That's what's different. Like it was appointment tv, but now, I mean, Steve, you can watch it, you know, anytime you want if you've got your recording settings going and all that. [01:04:51] Speaker D: Well, I'll give. I'll give you guys peace of mind that when I got married, and this is probably more Erica's idea than mine, I guess it's a Southern thing, she wanted to have a groom's cake, and we had a WWE groom's cake, which was in the shape of a WWE ring and the turnbuckles and everything had the logo on it. [01:05:09] Speaker C: Wow. [01:05:09] Speaker D: So I got a great wife, obviously. [01:05:12] Speaker B: Obviously, yes. [01:05:14] Speaker D: Yeah. To put up with me. [01:05:16] Speaker C: That's a true. That's a true soul mate there, man. [01:05:19] Speaker D: That's right. It's a keeper. [01:05:21] Speaker C: That's pretty cool. But, you know, I mean, I think, you know, one of the things that amazes me, and again, this is my business experience coming into to my. My biases and my. My way I think about things, but at its base, you know what WrestleMania is at its foundation, it's a wrestling card. Yeah, it's just like any other wrestling card. It has matches and a ring and. And guys out there and girls performing and it's a wrestling card. But what they've done with the brand of WrestleMania mania is what makes it special and what sets it apart. And when you think about the We. I mentioned the national expansion and the paradigm shift there. Part of that paradigm shift was WrestleMania because there had been large events going back to the 60s in wrestling promotion, but they didn't have the media exposure of a WrestleMania. And I know, Steve, you on the Stick to wrestling show, you guys have done 85 and you're working your way through 86. And you just did a show the other day about WrestleMania 2. Right. What do you think about that? Thought about how they've taken a wrestling card and what they've built it to? [01:06:40] Speaker D: Yeah, it's just. It's just beyond anything our minds could have ever envisioned. I mean, you know, Brian got into this a little bit after I did. I mean, I became a fan in 76, and of course, WrestleMania was 85. And just. Just to see everything evolve from, you know, Bruno was the champ when I began, and Backlin and Hogan, and to see everything that happened afterwards. And I. I mean, I can even remember. I mean, I can remember just maybe like 10, 15 years ago when they were really pushing Roman reigns like crazy and the fans weren't buying it. You almost felt like WrestleMania was like this bygone thing from a bygone era, and people were just going, because it's the thing to do is that time of the year. Let's just go. But now it's bigger than ever now. I mean, the stars may maybe not as big as, say, Stone Cold was or as Hogan was, but the event itself is bigger than it ever was. And it blows your mind when you think about that. [01:07:43] Speaker C: I'll kind of tie this into what Brian's been doing on his show. And I just was on not long ago talking about Dory Fell Funk Jr. But if you lay the timelines out, and this pains me to say, as a NWA died in the wool, dude, but WrestleMania kind of took the place of the NWA world title. Like, the world title was something to live up to. You had to be on top of your game to even approach being thought of as someone who could take that. And then once you had it, the demands and the standards were so high, high. And I think WrestleMania, for the longest time, and I don't know where you guys think this is now, but for the longest time, it was like, holy cow, we got to have a match for WrestleMania. Holy cow. We've got to have interviews that are worthy of WrestleMania. We've got to have a main event that's worthy of WrestleMania. Like, does that make sense? [01:08:35] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think for the talent that. Especially for the ones that have grown up in the WrestleMania era, you know, people now, WrestleMania Wrestling. I really think that being in the main event of WrestleMania is the pinnacle thing you want to do as a wrestler in your career, it's bigger than becoming a world champion. I think now you can get there by becoming a world champion, but it's almost like being the world champion is like the stepping Stone to getting in the main event of WrestleMania. [01:09:00] Speaker C: Right. [01:09:01] Speaker B: And I'm not saying that's a bad thing. It just feels like that's where it's gone. And I think part of that though is because the titles change hands way more often nowadays. I'm not saying it's cheaper, but you know, the company is full of guys that have been world champion at this point. It's not full of guys that have main evented WrestleMania, you know what I mean? Like that's, that's more rarefied now. So that's the goal. Yeah, definitely. [01:09:25] Speaker C: Well, I think that's one of the things that is special about this Roman and Punk thing because this is a career goal for Punk to be in the last match of the, the WrestleMania two day deal. I mean he's talked about that for years, like that was his, one of his main career objectives. And I'm just really happy for him. I'm happy for anybody that their dreams come true. And if that's a dream for him, I'm so happy that he's going to be able to do that. [01:09:55] Speaker D: You know, I haven't really watched a lot of the shows leading up to WrestleMania, but our dear friend, our all, our mutual friend Bob Smith has been recapping a lot of this on his site and he's telling me how terrible it is. But that being said, I mean the card itself, to me the card itself looks a lot better this year than last year, honestly. Like you said, those main event matches they have, last year they made the mistake of doing like a three way dance with Rollins and Punk and yeah, one other guy I can't remember. But now they have more, more appealing matches this year. [01:10:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I think they, in a way they sort of spoiled a bit the Reigns and Punk main event of this year. Because you saw them last year with Rollins shoehorned in for really no good reason. Although in the end we kind of learned why they did that because it led to the Heyman swerve at the end and it all kind of made sense in the end. I've never been a fan. I'm not a fan of triple threats in general as a rule, especially not for the main event of WrestleMania and I, or even Fatal Four Ways obviously. Same idea. I was working there in 2000. The first year they did it, that was the one where it was McMahon in every corner and you had, what was it? Triple H, Rock, Foley and Big Show. I think that should have been Triple H versus the Rock. That was their time to shine. And I just, I Think they didn't have full confidence. Austin was out. They were really panicking. And I just remember feeling what are we doing here? You know, WrestleMania main event. It really should, should be, you know what I mean? It should be one versus one. That good versus evil, whatever you want to call it. That pure Clash. And we're watering it down now by turning it into this thing. But it's much more common now, unfortunately. I've never been a fan of that. [01:11:47] Speaker C: Yeah, I think the Rock in last years and the Cena turn and, and all that kind of, you know, it sort of soured it, I think, think. And I still don't understand what they were doing there. But I, you know, I, I just didn't get it. And I hate that when the main event is kind of messed with like that. To Brian's point. [01:12:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:12:14] Speaker C: Even if the three way or something that doesn't quite add up or looks like it was just thrown out there. Like we're, we're sitting at a bar and, and we have an idea, you know, that would be a great idea. When it really at the night after you usually come to your senses, you know. [01:12:30] Speaker B: And I think we're seeing that in real time this year. Unfortunately with the Cody Rhodes and Randy Orton main event on the other side of it, the Saturday night one, it just seems like you could just feel them tinkering with it. You could just feel the, the puppet strings. Okay, what do we do now? Oh my God, this isn't working. What do we do now? That's not what you want to feel going into WrestleMania. [01:12:51] Speaker C: You know, one thing I can say about it is I do want to smack Pac. Matthew Pat, Matthew McAfee. [01:12:57] Speaker B: But I did before all this. [01:12:59] Speaker C: Right now though, I mean, it's up, the volume's up to 10. You know. [01:13:04] Speaker B: That's true. [01:13:04] Speaker C: Every time he says Randy Orton's name, I want to smack a teeth out. You know, Randy, he would have been [01:13:12] Speaker B: great in Memphis, I think. Can you imagine? He'd be like an Andy. He could have been like an Andy Kaufman type of figure. [01:13:17] Speaker C: That's probably why it's hitting my, it's hitting my biases there. All right, so Friday night we got Smackdown down and of course the Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal will be in there with a mix of the two show talents from both shows and an eight man street fight. This keeps going. This is like the, it's like the guest that comes over that won't go home. The Wyatt six and the mfts in an eight man street fight. I I don't know, man. It's, it's. And I know everything has to eventually cycle out because that's just the way wrestling is. You have to. Wrestling fans love new things. They love things that are different and new most of the time if it's good. And I know the bloodline couldn't continue forever, but man, talk about a great thing that has just been totally. I don't know, I just, It's a fast forward for me. [01:14:21] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And it feels like that whole thing is sort of like this, this place where great things go to die because you've got, like you said, the MFT is just the last sad vestiges of the bloodline with Solo Sokoa, who. I hate to, I hate to say this, I don't like to dump on these guys, but yeah, he kind of, he failed in that top position. They wanted him to be the top heel and it just, he just was not the guy. And so now you've got this whole thing blowing in the wind. And the Wyatt Six as well, which I have to imagine, I think they had much bigger hopes for. And it was supposed to really. It felt like they wanted it to be this game changing thing and now it's just sort of like a. They're like the oddities now. That's, that's what they are now. [01:15:06] Speaker C: I replayed the smackdown last night because that's what I often do is just go back and fast forward and look at, and see if there's anything I want to see or interesting or whatever. And they had a confrontation backstage between the Samoan Werewolf and all of the MFT guys. And I just kept thinking, he's going to whoop all of them. Like he could go off on all of those guys and it wouldn't even be fair, you know, I mean, I'm a big fan of Jacob Fatu. I like him a lot. [01:15:37] Speaker B: He's probably the best thing that came out of this late phase bloodline thing. [01:15:42] Speaker C: So the hall of Fame just. I'll just go through the people that, that are being inducted and again, we're just sitting around like three or four guys talking about the weekend, right? I mean, we're not talking. It's not that we're dumping on anybody or whatever. We're just like the regular wrestling fans today. We're just talking like fans. But in the hall of Fame you have Stephanie McMahon, former WWE executive chairwoman and on screen personality. And this was announced way back there at one of the events or something with the Undertaker. You guys remember that yeah, it was last year. [01:16:18] Speaker B: I think it was pretty far back. Yeah, it was. Now they have the Undertaker. The Undertaker. This is his new role now is to. Is to let people know they're going in the hall of Fame. They found, like, a little niche for him, which is ironic given that he's the Grim Reaper. It's almost like he's coming to you with the news that this is the last phase of your career. You're going in the hall of Fame. [01:16:39] Speaker C: I do like his show. I like his podcast. [01:16:42] Speaker B: Yeah, it's interesting. [01:16:43] Speaker C: He does some pretty. He has some pretty interesting guests on. What do you think about Stephanie going in, Steve? [01:16:49] Speaker D: I. I think, you know, I mean, she definitely fits the criteria of what they want. You know, somebody who is really well known. He has the McMahon name, obviously the affiliation with Triple H. But, you know, to her credit, I mean, I was there watching from her very first appearance on, on. She, her character on screen, she's really tapped into so many great fictional and characters from film like Lolita and the Bad scene with Patty McCormick and, you know, different characters. Maybe Schiffler's mom from American Pie, maybe. I don't know. But she. She's really tapped into a lot. And, you know, I. I saw her do the Angle with Cody a couple weeks ago from msg, and she slaps Cody and looks like she was auditioning for the Real Housewives of Titan Tower or Real Housewives of Greenwich. I don't know which, but. But, you know, she's a really a great talent, I think, as far as doing those types of skits, you know, the kind of stuff that evolved out of Jerry Springer, I guess. So, you know, more power to her. I think she. She really is for that kind of acting, or if you want to call acting or scenery chewing, she does quite a. Quite a good, good job. [01:18:09] Speaker B: And she's the. She is now the second McMahon to go in the hall of Fame after her grandfather, which is an interesting bit of trivia. It makes me wonder, I have to think, I wonder if this is sort of laying the groundwork or testing the waters for Steve. Steve smiling. He knows what I'm getting at. Of one day. What do they do with her dad in terms of the hall of Fame? I feel like this is sort of like the testing of the waters, but it's hard to disagree. Like you guys have been saying as a. As an on air character, character. I mean, clearly, this idea of the hall of Fame now, because they're inducting matches and things, it's way more than Just wrestlers and their wrestling careers. As an on air character in the last 25 years or more, 30 years almost, you kind of can't deny it. She's been a major on air figure, even taking out her stuff on the corporate side, which I don't know how much of that counts. Also very important. [01:19:01] Speaker C: I think it should all count. [01:19:03] Speaker B: I mean, she was the head of Creative. Maybe not their best period, but she was. And she's, you know, she's a very important figure both in front of the camera and behind it. So, I mean, I can't really quibble with that. I know people are quick to, to, to criticize one like that, but I can't. There have been ones that I could definitely criticize in the past, like last year when the Rock got his grandmother in, who, God rest her soul, was probably the worst territorial promotion promoter of her era, and basically just got in there as the main event, by the way, if I'm not mistaken, of the hall of Fame because of who her grandson was. That was, that was embarrassing to me. And then the Rock comes out with his homemade belt that somebody gave him. Just to the, to me, the Stephanie thing is harmless compared to that. [01:19:48] Speaker D: But I, I would add to Stephanie's the way people think of her now. I think that now that Vince has gone through all of his trials and tribulations, I think people, people, the average wrestling fan that remembers her, I think a lot of us give. Cut her some slack. Now, knowing how, how it, it must have been like a living hell to have him as your father and all the BS that was going on behind the scenes, I mean, it's like just really, you know, I think we're all sympathetic toward her plight in life. Being the daughter of Vince, I got [01:20:22] Speaker B: a lot of newfound. I mean, I was around her when I worked there and, you know, she wasn't always my favorite person to be around, but I, I got a lot of respect for her. When all that stuff happened with Vince where she, she walked away the second, you know, as soon as he came back and forced him way his way in, you could just feel there was so much unspoken there, at least to me you could. In the family dynamic, you could just feel like there was a lot that wasn't being said where I think she just had had enough of the old man, you know what I mean? And I got some new respect for her from that. [01:20:54] Speaker C: Well, I think, I think there's, there's a broad spectrum to this whole conversation. I mean, I, I, as someone who grew up in a Family business. And I just was on an episode with George Goulas, with Jerry Briscoe and John Bradshaw Layfield, and we talked about all of this because there's hardly anybody that took more crap about being part of a wrestling family than George Goulis has in the last 50 years. But it goes with it, you know, and the wrestling business up until the last 30 years, where there was just mainly one family in control of wrestling, now there's a couple. But families and business, that, that's. That's a whole different animal. I mean, I ran a company for six brothers and a father. That was my board that I was the CEO of for 13 years. And it's just a different deal. And I don't think there's an old saying, you don't know anybody until you live with them. I think it's kind of like you don't know anybody till you work with them either, and you're with them every single day. And I'm sure you've got plenty of stories on Stephanie from both sides, Brian, because you were there and you encountered her on a daily basis rather than most of us, myself included, that only really got to know her through the television screen. I think she deserves to go in because she didn't. She wasn't just someone who wore the name. She actually participated and she actually had input and she actually performed, formed. And, you know, I don't want to penalize her just because that's her name. I think she was a pretty. Based on what I could tell and based on my abilities as far as evaluating executives, it seemed like to me she was fairly effective as an executive during her time there. But, yeah, I think her. I think her walking out when Vince came back was just a statement on. I don't want to be associated with this. And who could blame her for that? [01:23:09] Speaker B: Yeah, because I think, you know, it became clear. I mean, obviously the show isn't really about this, but at least it became clear to me that she probably knew about a lot of those things way before anyone did. And just. I can't imagine imagine, especially as a woman knowing those things about your dad. I mean, she had a. Look, I'm not going to sugarcoat it. She had to be pretty disgusted. I mean, there's no other way to say it. [01:23:32] Speaker C: Well, how old is Stephanie, do you know? [01:23:35] Speaker B: She'll be. She was born in 77, I think, or six. So she's like 50. [01:23:40] Speaker C: About 50, yeah. Well, a couple years ago when all this is going on, she's in her late 40s and her mother now, too. Daughters. A mom. And her kids are, you know, of, of pretty fair age. And so you just, I would imagine in her mind, I, I'm not quite finished contributing something somewhere and thinking about her dad. Your career may be finished, but mine certainly isn't. So I can't, I can't allow, you know, some of this is going to stick to me because of my name, but I can't allow this to stick to me permanently as a brand because I've got to clearly differentiate and separate myself from this. And I thought it was a very smart move of her. [01:24:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:24:24] Speaker C: All right. And the show has to be about this a little bit because it's about WrestleMania and you can't really talk about WrestleMania without talking about the McMahon family. So AJ Styles, who just had a great. That episode of Raw where they retired him, was probably one of the best Raws I've seen in quite some time. [01:24:44] Speaker B: Yeah. And he's a layup as far as a Hall of Famer. I mean, even if you're only looking at his WWE career, I think he's still a layup. And certainly if you put it all into perspective, he is. I remember when PWI named him the, the wrestler of the 2020 tens. He was named that. And that was in, that was also in the decade of John Cena. But I think it's because he, A.J. styles, more kind of like his, you know, permeated the whole. Most of the decade from beginning to end. And you know, the guy, the guy did it all. He was at the, and as a performer, at the peak of his craft and at the top of the cards. I mean, he's the, he is the blueprint of a main eventer. I don't see how anyone would have an issue with that. [01:25:26] Speaker C: I was kind of proud of WWE because it's obvious you can't do a John Cena thing with everybody that retires. But the way, but the way they did honor him, I thought I give him points for that. You got any thoughts about aj, Steve? [01:25:39] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, anybody that doesn't believe in him or the value that he brought to the company, I mean, this is how, how, how much he's been in wrestling. He actually wrestled on, on a couple of those Monday nitro shows for WCW and the Thunder Show, I think he was on. So it was 2001, he wrestled for WCW. He was just like a new guy who'd only been wrestling for a few years, but he was getting his feet wet. And then like Brian said, he had all that other time with TNA and long before his WWE tenure began, I think around 2016 seen and he had great feuds with Cena and everybody else, but. And I think all of us are surprised the last two or three years, it's like he somehow like turned back time and got to be this like, he looks like 20 years younger than he did a few years ago. I don't know how he pulled that off, but he really was been very valuable to the company the last few years and they're really going to miss him. When you think about it that way, [01:26:44] Speaker C: the way he's been able to keep himself in the shape that he's been. I mean he, he really looks good for the ring wear and the bump card slashes that he's taken. You'll be able to do some open field running here as Brian will be to Bill Eady and Barry Darzo going in as the Demolition tag team. And I got to say, I'll say this and you guys can take over, but I mean when I was watching as a fan, to me it just looked like they came out of the Road Warrior factory, you know, I mean there were several of those big muscled face painted tag teams going around. It was sort of like the expresses, you know, I mean there was a so and so Express and a so and so Express and then we got the Road Warrior copies as well. And. But I will say, I think these guys distinguished themselves and set themselves apart. What say you guys? [01:27:43] Speaker A: Steve? [01:27:43] Speaker B: I don't know. Do you want either one? [01:27:45] Speaker C: It don't matter. Go ahead. [01:27:46] Speaker B: All right. Well, I would say, and I know people like to joke about this and it's oversimplifying it, the thing about the Demolition was they were the Road warriors, except they could work. Now I don't think that's fair because I think Animal and Hawk got a lot better. I mean, in 1983, yes, they were green as grass, but they got a lot better. But I still would say that Bill, Edie and Barry, Darcy Sal were always better workers than those guys. They were even before, certainly way before Demolition, especially Bill Le. [01:28:13] Speaker C: Oh yeah. [01:28:14] Speaker B: And so in a way you're right. I mean they were a Road warriors knockoff. It was Vince trying to create a [01:28:21] Speaker C: warrior make his own, you know. [01:28:24] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. If I can't get that's what he [01:28:26] Speaker C: does, I'll just make my own. I mean that was his philosophy back then. [01:28:30] Speaker B: To me, I, I mean I definitely think they belong. But it's this interesting thing where, where, you know, I was a kid at the time they were, I was in awe of them. I knew of the Road warriors, but I hadn't been able to really see them. I didn't even have cable. And so I think that, to me, it's almost like the Ultimate Warrior. I try to explain like, like the Ultimate Warrior, if you look at it, especially as an older fan and, and if you look at it, big picture looking back now, you go, this guy was there, what, three, four, five years tops. He was never the top guy. I mean, he was always overshadowed by Hogan. He was almost the top guy, you know, and, and, and people scratch their heads and go, well, he wasn't that great in the ring and he did this and he did that, and I agree with all that. But he hit at this perfect moment when the company was on fire and he was a big part of it. And he's burned into the memory of anyone who was a fan. You know, if he was going to be around for three or four years, only he picked the perfect three or four years. And I would say the same thing with Demolition. I mean, they were a team from, I think, something like 87 to 91, which, when you think about a lot of these great teams, I mean, some of them have been around way longer than that. And you go again, like, what's the big deal? They were only together three or four years, but if you were watching at the time, they were a major part, part of the product when the product was really hot, you know, they, not only did they get the tag belts, but they got them for a very long amount of time, especially for the time. And so I would say that they belong and they should have gone in years ago, but I know there was all these legal issues going on. [01:30:14] Speaker C: Two, two things. One, I mean, that's one of the problems with Vince winning the war is that that pretty much, much killed off any emphasis on tag teams. I mean, because the WWF has never been a big strong proponent of tag teams, even though they've had some really good ones. They're all two and three year kind of runs like that. And the other thing is, I wonder if they'll mention Crush at all. [01:30:41] Speaker B: I don't think they are. I think that's. I forget who was saying that. It might have been a member of the family who said there's been no, no mention of including him. I think it's just Accent Smash. [01:30:52] Speaker C: That's too bad. [01:30:54] Speaker D: And I'll just add that, you know, to Tony's point and Tony's right, when, when they, when they became a thing in 87, we all looked at them as, you know, a rip off of the Road warriors. But over time, and it didn't take that long, probably by 87 or 80, 88, 89, they really, you know, gained some traction and because of their solid work rate in which WWF really wasn't known for anyhow, they really became a respectable team. I know Bruce Pritchard isn't really the guy to go to for facts and things, but even in his opinion, he always said they were the gold standard of tag teams. In his opinion, he was working there. I mean, I prefer the Hart foundation long term over Demolition, but I, I always thought Ed brought a lot. Dar Sol brought a lot. I'm going to give kudos to Randy Cully. He was with the original team and I was actually in Binghamton the night that they introduced Bryan Adams's Crush and, and sadly the team was really never the same once he came on board. You know, I, I initially I think there was a rumor that Edie had a heart problem, but later on he said he was like allergic to shellfish or something. He has said allergic reaction. But the team was never the same after that. They just, and when they, when they did want to feud them with the Road warriors, the promotion didn't really take the time to make it this big event like they could have made it. They just slapped it together almost like the way they did with Hogan and Flair. Like, hey, let's just put them together, see what happens and Right. And it was all bad, it wasn't good. [01:32:30] Speaker B: No, they just kind of did it as a house show tour the same way they did with Hogan and Flair. It's like they didn't have confidence in it. Very strange. But I, and again, I'm biased. I was 12 and 13 at the time. But I will say I really bought them. I bought them. They just seemed so rough and dangerous. They were hard hitting. They were like, you know, everybody talks about how there would be the guys where you would watch it and go, I think these guys might be real. I used to think that with them as a kid. I would go a lot of this looks like bs but, but these guys, I don't know to the point where even when they would do look their finisher, it's a very simple finisher. It's the kind of move you see in almost every tag team match. Now just as part of the match, I forget what it was even called where the Decapitator or something where you come off that one guy holds the guy like a Back breaker and you come off with the elbow. [01:33:25] Speaker C: But. [01:33:25] Speaker B: But when they did it, I'm telling you, I'm watching that going, I hope that guy's all right. I think that guy might be dead. They got to check on that guy. I just. There was something about them that was very believable that I loved about Demolition. [01:33:38] Speaker C: Now that I'm. [01:33:39] Speaker D: I think people like the Rick Derringer theme too. We have to give him credit. [01:33:42] Speaker B: Yes, it was a good one, Steve. [01:33:44] Speaker C: Man, you coming out, pulling those out of your pocket now. That's awesome. Now that I'm further removed from it and much less emotional than I was at the time because not giving the Flair Hogan that, that I was emotional about that because I thought, man, finally Ric Flair is going to be in the WWF and he's going to have the opportunity to show what he can really do and he could really have some great matches with Hogan because Flair's going to call the match and Hogan can actually wrestle when he wants to and. But now that I'm removed from it and looking at Vince's habits over time, I think as, as a, as. I don't even know if I would call him a booker, but I mean, I guess he is. But let's say he is. So as a booker, I think he had a habit of taking things that either one he didn't really believe in and given it a house show tour to kind of prove that. Yeah, I knew that wasn't going to work or something the fans really wanted back. He almost like had a thing where he didn't want to give it to him. [01:34:55] Speaker D: Yes. [01:34:55] Speaker C: Like, he had that in several instances where, you know, like, where you have a really, you know, you have a good friend in your relationship circle and, you know, they really need a lot of attention and they're a little bit high maintenance and you just don't want to give it to them just because, you know, they really, really need to be told something. I think that's the way way Vince is with some programs and, and matchups. Like, well, I know the fans really want this. Yes. Guy, but I'm not gonna. I'm not. [01:35:26] Speaker B: That was. I was thinking of, of Daniel Bryan. [01:35:28] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm not gonna book it. [01:35:30] Speaker B: It's a funny thing with Vince. I think he's such a complicated person because people immediately will say, oh, the problem that Vince had was he couldn't recognize that someone was a big star from outside his company, you know, or he, he couldn't. He, he wouldn't recognize anybody that he hadn't made himself. And maybe that's part of it, but I can't buy that because look at what he did. When he started the. The national thing, he was specifically looking for all the people who had been huge stars in other promotions. So he had an idea. He knew the junkyard dog was a big deal and he could bring him in. He knew Roddy Piper was a big deal. He understood that. So I don't know. I think maybe he's just very hard to figure out. [01:36:13] Speaker C: I don't. [01:36:14] Speaker B: I don't. [01:36:14] Speaker D: I don't know. [01:36:14] Speaker B: It just. But he did. You're right. He would do that where he just couldn't admit that someone else had a good idea besides him. It's like, what they even brought up. Maybe with Flair, there was talk, I think, of trying to do the Horseman. They probably would have had to call it something else, but he just thought, no one cares about the Horseman. [01:36:31] Speaker C: That's a dusty idea. That's not. [01:36:32] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:36:33] Speaker C: That's not mine. [01:36:35] Speaker D: I'll play devil's advocate with you guys, though. I mean, if we were all, like. Let's say, if all the wrestling fans that are out there were all smart fans, I think we could blame Vince and say, God, he really dropped the ball. But being that, like, the WWF at the time was tons of little kids at home buying the dolls, and they were. There were kids and they're. They're in the kids things and blah, blah, blah. And here's Hogan, who's defeated these huge monsters already. All these huge challengers, like Big Boss man and these other huge monsters. Andrew, even. And now they're bringing Ric Flair, who looked like a petite, older guy. I think, Brian, you've said that before on your show. You know, Flair didn't look like this monstrous, scary being who could be a real challenger to Hogan. I mean, amongst the smart fans. Yes, obviously, especially for kids. To the average WWF kid watching at home that watches it once or twice a week, like, who's this Ric Flair guy? And why should I care? [01:37:33] Speaker B: You know, there was definitely some of that, and it wasn't even just kids. Like, I remember even. Even. I talk about my grandfather a lot, but he wasn't. You know, he's certainly not a kid, but he. He only knew the wwf. He was a New York guy. He didn't really know a lot about other wrestling. I mean, especially currently. I mean, you know, he knew all the names from the past, but he would go, you know, he. He never could understand the flare thing when Flair came in. And I Was losing my mind over it. He would always say to me, I don't know why you're making such a big deal about this flare guy. Just doesn't look like he's in the same kind of shape as the other guys. He cheats all the time. Because of course, my grandpa was totally in cave. [01:38:10] Speaker C: Well, he would have. I mean, your grandpa would have seen Buddy Rogers, so. [01:38:15] Speaker B: Yeah, so he knew any. And he loved Buddy Rogers. [01:38:17] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. So to him, no, you're right. Rick was probably like a knockoff, you know, like, I don't, I don't get it. [01:38:25] Speaker D: Like a demolition. [01:38:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I might have been part of it too. Yeah, yeah. [01:38:29] Speaker C: He's probably thinking, seen this before. Okay, so talking about paradigm changes, this one probably is going to burn a lot of people as far as paradigms of the way the business is now than the way they traditionally think about the business. But Dennis Rodman's going in the hall of Fame and the wrestling business is full of characters and good God, has there ever been a bigger character than Dennis Rodman? I mean, what do you guys think? I mean, he's going in for the NWO stuff in wwe, right? [01:38:59] Speaker B: I think if you're gonna have a celebrity wing, then he's the kind of person you want to put in it. In the same way that. [01:39:07] Speaker C: And they're calling him a celebrity inductee. [01:39:10] Speaker B: Right? In the same way when they did it with Andy Kaufman, I said, absolutely. This should be what the celebrity wing is for. When they did it with Mr. T. Absolutely. There have been years where they would do it with people. Look, I'm the biggest Star Trek fan walking this planet. I worship the ground that, that William Shatner walks on. The fact that he was inducted. He was inducted because he showed up on one Monday night Raw and fought with Jeff Jarrett. I mean, things like that are ridiculous and you know, they're just doing it for the publicity, obviously. But a Rodman, I feel like as long. Unless you just hate the celebrity wing, I understand that. But if you can accept the celebrity wing, he's perfect for it. I mean, he was a main event celebrity in wc. [01:39:51] Speaker C: It was one of the things that stood out to me. I, I've read Phil Jackson's book eleven Rings like five times and I, I reference it with my clients all the time because I just think Phil Jackson was a master at communicating with his players and just a master relationship fella. But in the book he talks about how Dennis disappears and they're, they're in the playoffs or something, or the playoffs are coming up, up, and they can't find him. And he asks somebody, I can't remember who on the team, he goes, yeah, Dennis said he needed a vacation. He goes, vacation? We're getting ready to go into the playoffs. Well, it turns out he was doing the wrestling deal. He turned Phil Jackson, turned on the television, and there's Dennis Rodman on Monday night Nitro or something. So, I mean, just an interesting cat who. I mean, known for his rebounding in basketball. Probably the greatest rebounder of all, all time. But what do you think, Steve? [01:40:49] Speaker D: Yeah, I think he's a great, great choice. I mean, he was one of those guys that really added to the mystique of the nwo. I mean, yeah, Hogan, hall and Nash were pretty much what you really needed for the nwo. But when they decided to add extra people to it, having this edgy guy from the real sports world added to it, like. And he was the most controversial person in sports at that time, you know, so he was a great choice to be in there. And, you know, with all of his crazy clothes, crazy hair, hairstyle, outfits, he really was a perfect fit for wrestling. [01:41:25] Speaker C: And they did add people. I mean, gee, many Christmas they were down to Great Aunt Emma on your brother's side. By the time it was over, who didn't they add? The ring was full of people and impersonators of people. Okay, so here. Here's a couple that I think, think are. Are really. I think these are good. I know a lot of people have questioned, like, why Sid is a legacy inductee rather than just an individual inductee. I don't know. What do you guys think? Sid Vicious, Sid Udi saw him in Memphis when he first started, when he was a West Memphis softball player. And I guess Lawlor found him somewhere and brought him to television. That's where I first saw him anyway. [01:42:08] Speaker B: And he never stopped being a West Memphis software softball player. [01:42:12] Speaker A: Right. [01:42:13] Speaker B: I think he definitely belongs. I think he's the earliest wrestler to hold the WWF title who's not in. I remember trying to sort that out recently. And, you know, this legacy thing. My understanding is that WWE is now looking at the Legacy Wing as the place where deceased wrestlers will go. [01:42:37] Speaker C: Oh, wow. [01:42:37] Speaker B: That's the. That's the thinking I've gotten. Originally, it was more. More like people who were around before WWE existed. That's kind of like the vibe originally where they had Frank Gotcha and Strangler Lewis and all that. I think now. And I think, like, last year they did Kamala. I think it's the idea that they want the main inductees to all be living people who could come up and accept the award. I think that's, that's the way they're looking at it now. So if that's the case, I understand it. What I don't like is those, and I don't know if this is still the case case. I would hear this with people like Brody and I think Stan Stasiak, where they were doing legacy so that they wouldn't have to offer the family or the person a legends deal. So that, so they would make sure there was not going to be any money in it for them. It was just the honor of it. If that's what it's about, I'm not as much of a fan of that, for sure. [01:43:30] Speaker D: Well, yeah, and I would just add that he, I, I agree he's a good choice. I mean as long as you, you were remembered and someone who had an impact and he did, he meets those criteria. So he's a no brainer. [01:43:44] Speaker B: He's one of those people. If I could just say, Tony, that it mystifies me and maybe this is just my opinion. I don't know. I'm sure, I know not everyone agrees when he passed away and you get some people that are, you know, sort of. I just basically said, I don't understand how you could look at someone like Sid and not see, see that he, he's almost like the perfect pro wrestler. And he had an unbelievable look. His promos. This is another thing when people try to say, oh, he was terrible on the mic. I am I out of my mind? Like on what planet? I thought he was the epitome of a certain kind of wrestling promo for sure. But the intensity that he brought in the. Again, he worked the big man style better than, than, than most. And his biggest enemy was himself. Like all the talk about how he would walk away or he would get in fights with people and you know, he would sabotage his own pushes and things like that. But, but as a talent, I feel like he is what he's a promoter's dream. I don't know. [01:44:45] Speaker D: I. [01:44:46] Speaker C: The two things I come to mind besides the Memphis stuff that I first again, going back to the foundations of when you first saw somebody, he probably wins the award for most graphic injury on video of all, without a doubt. Oh my God, I can't watch it. I mean, it pains me so as someone who's had leg injuries and had to have repair surgeries and things like that to your leg, I mean that, that that that piece of film is. Is incredible. And then the, The Arn Anderson deal where they got into it. I mean, I think those are two things that kind of follow him around with his brand. [01:45:30] Speaker B: And the squeegee thing, wasn't that the thing with Brian Pillman, right, where they. I don't even. Those kind of things. [01:45:37] Speaker D: I mean, I mean, I will say this about Sid. I mean, just, Just from my viewpoint as a fan. I mean, I saw him coming to WWE and I had seen him in wcw and I saw him bounce back and forth between the. Too. To me, he never really resonated as a believable guy. Like, like, say, like if I saw Paul Orndorff wrestle and I saw a Paul Orndorff promo, I could believe it. I could watch it. I thought he was 100% real, authentic, and he would beat the hell out of you if you didn't believe. So with Sid, to me, this is just me. He was all bluster. He was all like. I mean, he was like. Like Brian said he was. Was almost like too perfect, like too hu. Too humongous, too big, had all the sweat, like, bubbling all over his body. And I mean, he looked like he should look, but to me, like, when he was doing his thing, when he was doing his promo, I wasn't buying it. It was just like. It was like he was almost like going through the motions. I mean, I couldn't buy into it, but. But I'm glad he's going in the hall of Fame because I know he had a lot of fans. And maybe with me, it's just a generational thing. I had seen a lot of the top workers. Maybe by that point I. Maybe my wrestling was shot by that point. I. I don't know. [01:46:48] Speaker C: Well, I think it all goes into it, you know, I think. I think the. For the time, I think we did look at him that way. I think we looked at him like, well, he's a big guy, he's very impressive. He's very physically imposing. They'll probably give him the title, you know, because of the way his look. I mean, his look was. I mean, and that. And the scorecard for wrestlers in that particular time period, period was different than maybe it is now or maybe it was before, where certain things mattered and certain things didn't. And physique was the major thing when he came along, and he certainly was impressive in that. [01:47:28] Speaker B: And. And Vince also had him pegged as one of the collection of guys he was desperately hoping could replace Hogan. I mean, he was on that list with Luger and Warrior and those guys, I mean, he was one of those people and it didn't pan out. I mean, if you know anything about the behind the scenes, I mean, Vince lost faith in him fairly quickly, unfortunately. And maybe it was because of a lot of these factors. I don't know, maybe he felt he wasn't authentic enough or dependable enough. Whatever it was, he had a very short kind of like window of, of opportunity there. [01:48:02] Speaker C: I, I think both groups at various times put high hopes on him. You know, I think, I think they both saw money in him and thought he was, you know, going to be this, you know, this, this amazing in. You nailed it in the whole Kogan vein, but it just never quite got there. [01:48:23] Speaker B: To me personally, I always feel like the criticisms that people level towards Sid are always the things that I would level towards Luger all the time where, you know, I never was a big fan of his anywhere he worked. I always felt like he was just a great looking boy body. I didn't, I, I didn't think he was a good promo. I didn't think he was convincing in the ring. I thought his heart was never fully in it. I don't think he could sell properly. I mean, again, I know I'm destroying the guy, but like all the criticisms of Sid I didn't necessarily see that was the way I looked at Luger as the guy who got a million breaks just because of how he looked. [01:48:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:48:59] Speaker B: And that was it. [01:49:00] Speaker C: I, I, Lex just looked like you couldn't bend him. Like he, like he was just one piece. Like you, you would play with a piece toy, you know, on a, like an LJN figure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He just looked like that. And he didn't register anything. [01:49:18] Speaker B: No. [01:49:18] Speaker C: You know, and that was difficult to suspend disbelief when you have that kind of work going on. I mean, it's just hard for, you know, unless you're 11 and you're just into the, the, you know, the action and the, and the, the drama of it. I mean, if you're a more mature fan that are looking, look, you're looking at technical aspects, you're not going to, that's not going to be high on your scorecard with either of these guys. They, they both. And there's probably others that go in that same replacement of Hogan category, you know, over the years. Yeah, we'll go to Bad News Allen, Bad News Brown, my favorite that's going in probably just because, you know, he's a guy who, I mean, his character had so much of his actual self in it. I mean he grew up, was born and grew up in Harlem in New York and was presented as, and I guess he was based on his judo background. Everything just badass street fighter before MMA was a thing, you know, and I believed in his character. I mean he struck me as the opposite of what we were just discussing. Like I, I thought he was a real ass guy. What do you guys think? [01:50:34] Speaker D: Well, I was happy to see him get inducted and, and to me he, he was the opposite of what Vince McMahon would probably like to put in the hall of Fame because he never really took any offense's bs. I mean apparently I watched his shoot interview like a dozen times, I guess, but he, he basically never wanted to get into wrestling. But, but after all the judo stuff, he found out that you know, in Japan they could train you to be a pro wrestler and he wanted to continue an athletic endeavor that he could make money off of and wrestling proved to be that thing. And he never bought into Vince McMahon's promises. Like, I mean, I guess supposedly he says that Vince said you're going to be my champion and we're going to give you that opportunity. And, but, but I mean he just looked at the wrestling business as this great opportunity to, he didn't like buy into all the other stuff like a lot of the other wrestlers who mark out for themselves did. And from what I can tell, he was really a great guy, a straight shooter, a family man, really good guy. And I'm happy to see him being honored. I know it means a lot to his family from what I heard. [01:51:41] Speaker C: Well, it's probably why he got along so great with Stu Hart. I mean, and he, and he, he did all the achievement stuff at the 76 Summer Olympics in Montreal where he got the bronze medal in the heavyweight and he was the first African American to medal in something that wasn't tracker field and bought our boxing. I mean he, he was a legit 6 foot 2, 275 pound bad dude. [01:52:09] Speaker D: Yeah, for sure. [01:52:09] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think he was, he's also a good example of where. Yeah, yeah, and he, he, he was the judo, you know, medalist in the Olympics and all that. And I also think though, he's a good example of a guy that you can see him going in based on his whole career more than just his WWF time. I mean, I don't think I'm going out on a limb. He was there two years or something in the late 80s and I know he had that short run in 79. If you're just looking at that, you're going. Well, I, I don't, I don't really know, but if you're looking at the whole thing. Absolutely. Particularly Japan Stampede, I mean, yeah, I mean, that's a hall of fame career to me. I think then too, like you guys are saying, very standup guy, the type of wrestler that I think a lot of guys are afraid to be in the sense that he's, he looks out for his own interests. He, he looks out for, you know, he's. It's important to him that the wrestlers are treated the right way. And so many guys are afraid to do that or they just want to go with the flow. They don't want to get in trouble, they don't want to get blacklisted, listed, or this out of the other thing. And, you know, everything I know about him, he seemed like somebody that was really going to stand on business. I mean, there's a, there's a famous story. I, I don't know if I'm getting it right or what. Where I, I can't remember if it was Dusty Rhodes or Andre the Giant, but it might have been both. Where the. When he was up in New York, somebody said something racist, supposedly. I think it might have been Dusty to SD Jones or something like that. [01:53:41] Speaker D: It was, that was, it was. That's what it was. [01:53:43] Speaker B: And bad news put him in his place. I absolutely put him in his place, according to the story. And I mean, that's the kind of thing, it makes you think of these guys, that so many guys are afraid to stand up in those ways, whether it even be standing up to promoters. And, you know, that's why I was always on Punk's side when he did what he did 12 years ago, whatever it was, when he walked out. And I thought there should be more guys who, who, who, who look out for themselves that way and who don't take crap the way that he did. So I always have a lot of respect for the guys, guys that, that really stand up and aren't afraid to open their mouth in the, in the business. [01:54:19] Speaker C: Well, he was. [01:54:20] Speaker D: And he, and he stood up to Andre. I guess Andre had sit on a bus, a trip in Japan. He, Andre had said some racial things and he challenged Andre, said, let's, you know, get off the bus. I want to talk to you. And Andre refused. But at the hotel that night, or maybe the next morning, Alan did confront Andre and said, you know, why are you talking about my people that way? [01:54:43] Speaker C: Way. [01:54:43] Speaker D: And he says, you know, you wouldn't Want me to talk about French people that way? And they kind of came to an understanding. And, you know, years later, right before Andre passed away, they had an infamous match in Mexico City where Andre had a bowel movement on. Bad news during a match. And then Andre passed away shortly thereafter. But. But they. They did. They did make amends. And they did. They ended their relationship as friends, for what. I know. [01:55:11] Speaker C: Well, we're talking about WrestleMania. I mean, his big moment was in WrestleMania 4, I think, where he won a battle royal. 20 man battle royal. And Bret Hart has always said great things about him. They had that big angle in Canada where he and the Mongolian Stomper is something about Mongolia. Stomper's son. Right. And. [01:55:35] Speaker D: Right. [01:55:36] Speaker C: And the announcer quit over it because he was Ed Whalen. Ed Whalen, Yeah, that's right. And thank you, man. And it's, you know, you get older, nouns are the first thing to go. But. But he. Bret Hart put him over in that Battle Royal and let him eliminate him. He also eliminated Hacksaw Duggan and then he was in the championship picture with Randy Savage there for the WWF title. And he had runs with Piper, he had runs with Jake the Snap, all the hot guys at the time. I mean, he. He had a pretty good run until the summer slam of 90. [01:56:13] Speaker B: I think he had a run with Hogan too. I can't remember if it was when Hogan had the belt or not. It might have been when he. It was either before he lost it to Andre or after he got it back from Savage at some point. He had. I think it was one of those house show things where, you know, they had to keep Hogan busy, where they. There was that period where they were bringing in all these people to throw at him at the house shows, like One Man Gang and Killer Khan. And all those guys were coming in, the guys that wouldn't. [01:56:40] Speaker A: They. [01:56:40] Speaker B: They weren't getting major main events. And I think bad news Brown was one of those at the time, but he was definitely a part of it. [01:56:48] Speaker A: He. [01:56:48] Speaker B: He wrestled Duggan at WrestleMania 5. There was the infamous Roddy Piper match at WrestleMania 6 where I, I really do, do think that Piper had the best of intentions there. I just think somebody should have sat him down and said, maybe, maybe not do this, but I do think he had the best of intentions. I really do. [01:57:07] Speaker C: Yeah. So I. You'll have to excuse me and my ignorance or whatever, but is this the first year we're having an immortal moment? [01:57:16] Speaker B: Last year. [01:57:17] Speaker C: Last year. What was it last year? [01:57:19] Speaker B: Oh, it was. Oh, wait, I know. Yeah, Bret Hart and stone cold at WrestleMania. [01:57:24] Speaker C: Okay, so this year, I mean, this is a one that you're very familiar with, Brian, because it was the, it was the big guerrilla call, right? Hulk Hogan and Andre The Giant at WrestleMania 3. [01:57:36] Speaker B: It's where the title of the book came from. And I recently retweeted Triple H because when he announced it, he mentioned Gorilla Monsoon. In the announcement, he said how. How iconic of a call that was and how it was funny that he did that. You know, I mean, mean, but that he mentioned. Maybe he read my book, I don't know. But. But I retweeted it because at least [01:57:56] Speaker C: they listened to it probably. [01:57:57] Speaker B: Maybe. I mean, you know, because he's a. That's a name that's known to all these guys. But that is to me, the, that's the ultimate WrestleMania match still to this day. So of course, if you're gonna, if you're gonna start inducting matches, that's the match. [01:58:13] Speaker C: CM Punk liked the George Goulas episode, so you could never tell. [01:58:17] Speaker B: How about that? That's pretty cool. [01:58:19] Speaker C: All right. Saturday is the first day of WrestleMania 42 at Allegiant Stadium in Las Vegas. That's another thing that kind of rubs fans the wrong way is that they went back to Vegas again for the [01:58:32] Speaker B: second year and Saudi Arabia next year. I mean, they're on a roll. [01:58:36] Speaker C: It's. It's got. I mean, it's all part of being a global company. That's what I'm saying. I mean, politics and those kinds of things are side. It's when you go global, you move things around and then WrestleMania all of a sudden isn't an American thing any longer because now you're opening yourself up to audiences and I, I just can't believe that they aren't going to do WrestleMania at Mexico City sometime. I mean, to me that would be right in the wheelhouse. They bought the AAA and all that and they got the, you know, the, the Lucha pay per views and all that now. [01:59:13] Speaker B: I mean, well, Vince talked about bringing in WrestleMania to the moon. Now if they get that moon base built in a couple of years, they might try to do it [01:59:22] Speaker C: all. Our favorite, it'll be like Covid, but all of our wrestlers will be in anti gravity suits. [01:59:28] Speaker B: Anti gravity match. Come on. That's funny. [01:59:31] Speaker C: That's it. We got a six man tag match. Logan Paul, Austin Theory and Ishow Space speed against the Usos and La Knight. Weird pairings there. What do you guys think? [01:59:44] Speaker D: I know, I know. Bob Smith's a huge La Knight guy and it seems like he's completely falling off the food food chain. I mean, he's a guy that was really hot a couple years ago and it seems like whatever, however they mismanage him, he. He always comes out smelling like roses. I mean, he's always, always still over with the crowd. But eventually they got to do something with that guy. [02:00:06] Speaker C: It seems like he's one of those guys that. [02:00:08] Speaker B: I remember watching this in real time and I stand by this. You know how they always talk about how with, with La Knight. I lost my train of thought there. What was I talking about? I'm sorry. [02:00:21] Speaker C: That's all right. I'll jump in while you're thinking. [02:00:23] Speaker B: I totally lost it. [02:00:24] Speaker C: He just seems like one of those guys who. [02:00:28] Speaker B: Oh yes. The thing with La Knight is he, I think was hurt the most by CM Punk coming back. I really believe that because like we, you guys know this. There is a finite number of spots. There just are. And La Knight was just hitting his stride. Main evented in Saudi Arabia with Roman Reigns and it was right before Punk came in. And I'm telling you, the second Punk came back, he moved down the card. I really think that that, that hurt him. Punk coming back hurt him. [02:01:00] Speaker C: He's one of those guys that is so over with the crowd. It's almost like he makes himself be difficult to be ignored. It's almost like they, they move him down the pyramid. But then the fans are so into him and over him, it's like we better put this guy in a significant spot again because he's, you know, he just can't be ignored. Then we have, and here's another paradigm gear grinder here, an unsanctioned match. Which reminds me of what they're trying to do. Something like the old lights out match, right? Like we're going to flash the lights and then the, the sanctioning body of wrestling. We're not responsible for what might happen here. This is going to be crazy and wild and you just don't know what's going to happen. Jacob fought to and Drew McIntyre, but we're going to carry that on ESPN too. Like we're going to make sure you see this thing that we're afraid is going to get out of control. Control. [02:01:54] Speaker B: Well, it's the byproduct of you have a business now where things are so much more chaotic than they used to be and there's so much madness going, happening up and down the card on every show. There's sneak attacks in every match. There's locker room brawls. There's, there's a table in every big match. So when you do back in the day when you did a lights out match, the fans could really kind of say, oh, we're really going to see some crazy stuff here that never happens happens. You can't say that anymore. How could you? What are they going to do, shoot each other? I mean it really just when they do this and aew same thing, it feels like it's just another wild crazy match like every other wild crazy match you see on every show now. It's hard to make it mean anything, which is a shame because I think that's a great match on paper. Drew McIntyre is so intense. I love everything he does does. He's really made himself into one of the all time great heels in my book. I would really say that with confidence and it's a great match on paper. There was no need to do this unsanctioned, that you could just say whatever, no disqualification, no, that unsanctioned has no meaning. I don't even think the average fan today knows what that even means anymore. [02:03:06] Speaker C: Right? Yeah. If this had been the old days like in say 1986, that you know, the, the match in the ring would have gotten out of the ring and Dusty would have somehow end up in the ring and then Flair would have somehow ended up in the ring and they're about to square off and we're out of time, we gotta go, you know, but here it's like I'll give [02:03:24] Speaker D: you guys an idea that again it's, it's really an outdated idea but you know, if they came back after WrestleMania and Triple H comes on Raw and he says, hey, you know, we're gonna do a WrestleMania reset now that WrestleMania is over with and, and we're gonna have the referees really start to enforce the rules. [02:03:42] Speaker C: Rules. [02:03:42] Speaker D: And let's, and, and let's say that they took it like 1992. Bill Watson. Not, not like you can't jump off the top rope but you know, you have to, you know, the tag matches, you got to hold the ropes and, and to have the referees act like the old referees from the 70s where you have to listen to them or they're going to disqualify you. And if they can really kind of get the referees involved again as these really credible enforcers of the action rather than just like walking mannequins, what they are now, maybe they could, you know, if they did something like that then eventually they could do something like a lights up, imagine it would mean something. That's what I'm trying to say. Yeah. [02:04:20] Speaker B: One of my. One of the toughest things for me about being, continuing to watch wrestling is what's happened to wrestling referees. As far as from being an older school fan to now, it is one of the most frustrating parts because I can't not see it. I'll be watching with my watch wife or my friend or my kids or friend, and they'll go, why do you care so much about what the referee is doing? Who cares? Just watch the match. And I'll just say, you don't understand. You just don't understand. You know, the referee has a part to play in there. They're part of the match, they're part of the show. Look, I understand wrestling's a work. There are no. Especially post nwa. There are no real rules. It's all a work. But the referee has to at least look. Look like he's in charge. He has to look like he's doing something, even if he's not actually doing anything. You have to look like you're doing something. And now they just. It seems like they're just spectators of the match or they just. The worst thing that I hate the most is they will beg and plead with the wrestlers like they're their mommy and daddy instead of, you know, I'm in charge, you know, you do what I say, and if you don't, you know, something's going to. To happen, even if nothing happens, just the fact that they are acting that way. And I, I just want to say, I know this is a rant, but there's something I want to say about this, and I know I'm on the right show for it. [02:05:42] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:05:43] Speaker B: Here's an example. Tell me if you guys don't agree with this, of how. What they've done with these poor referees. Now, in the old days when guys would get in the ring, one of the referees. First things that they had to do was make sure that they stayed apart and they stayed in their own corner. You remember, like, the referees would be obsessed with that. Get in your corner, get in your corner. They'd back you up into the cor. [02:06:04] Speaker C: Got my. [02:06:04] Speaker B: Once you start getting into the era. Once you get into the era. Now let's say you get into the 80s and 90s where guys are coming in the ring and they're kind of showboating and they kind of have to do their things, you know, like pose or JYD is waving the chain around. You would always see the referees were still desperately trying to get them back no matter what. If you, if you notice it, even when, like, let's say Jyd, for example, he comes in the ring and he's shaking the chains and he's. And he's yelling. The referees are screaming and pushing him back and yelling at him that not to do that. You know, of course the wrestler is not going to listen because the fans want to see them showboat. But that's the performance of wrestling. You watch a match now, the referee literally just stands in the corner with their arms folded and just lets the wrestler do his whole choreographed dance routine. And whatever he does before the match, match starts without even the pretense of, I am trying to keep this under control. You know what I mean? Like all that, that, that. That's an example of what I mean. Every. All of that is just out the window. And I miss it so much. [02:07:11] Speaker C: Whether every universe, it doesn't matter if it's James Bond or if it's Batman or if it's Superman or what. Every universe has rules that you. That everybody adheres to. And so it makes the universe function. Star Trek had a universe. It had, you know, the paradigm had sides to the box. You knew that you were in the Star Trek universe and you could believe, even though you knew the Enterprise really wasn't going through space, you could sit there and watch television and actually be on the deck of the Enterprise next to Captain Kirk when he's, you know, talking to the space alien in the other ship. But the rules have been of this universe have been played with and toyed with. You know, the first thing that somebody does in a wrestling match establishes them for what the fan is going to believe. So, like if, if Jyd comes into the room swinging his chain, okay, he's a badass and he's about to clean house. What does the heel do? He'll bails, right? He'll do slides under the bottom rope and go, okay, well, this guy's going to. That's the game. He's going to play this whole match. He's going to try to stay away from this because he's bad. But the referee stood his ground in the middle of the ring and held Jyd back in his 25% of the ring. And that was the referee establishing himself in the match, just like the Babyface did and just like the heel did. But now we've got four and sometimes six people in the ring, because not only do we have the referee, we also have the ring announcer that has to do every match, you know, has to announce every match after everybody's music plays and all of that kind of stuff. And it just. The referee just kind of gets lost. Like, when I'm watching it, what I'm thinking about is what they're telling him from the gorilla position. Like, I see him as a chess piece being moved around by the guys in the back like that. I don't really see him working in the match the way he would if he didn't have that diaphragm FB in his ear. [02:09:19] Speaker B: And that's why I never blame the refs for this. I really want to make that clear because I'm sure, I know they're being told what to do. They're being told how to do their job. They want to keep their job. [02:09:29] Speaker C: Of course. [02:09:29] Speaker B: I. I just don't understand the thought process that led to all this. You know, I think part of it is. I know it's a tangent, but part of it is that the. A lot of the wrestlers, I think they don't understand the concept of. Of what a wrestling match is and how to put it together. I know I sound very pompous and saying that. All they care about, it seems to me, is that they just want to get to do all their moves. And so they don't want to have a referee screaming in their face or trying to get in between them or doing this. They just want to be able to do their dance, point at the hard camera, you know, and do the moves they want to do. And that's that. And that's why sometimes I. I hate this. You'll see a referee yelling at a wrestler and the ref, the wrestler just acts like they're not even there because they're just so locked in to the moves they have to do. And that's why you see the referee now, he stands all the way back. He's never in the mix of what's happening. He's got his arms at his side half the time, and they just look so defeated. It's like they've just been told, just stay in the corner, dance around a little bit and count to three. You know what I mean? And that's what you do. [02:10:35] Speaker C: And that's. [02:10:36] Speaker D: Yeah, I'm sorry, Tony. I. I was just going to say. Say, you know, today, Today's world, it's like, whatever happened to that old wrestling theory of if the guys in the opening matches are going to do everything under the sun, every move, what's left [02:10:49] Speaker A: for the main eventer to do? [02:10:51] Speaker D: Whatever happened to that? I mean, these guys that are Putting on the shows. They're screwing it all up, honestly. [02:10:57] Speaker C: And that's why there are things that I do enjoy and get excited like, I will enjoy. There will be two or three things I won't enjoy about Punk and Roman, but overall, I will enjoy the match that they do on Sunday night. The things that I won't enjoy are all the false finishes. Everybody agree every. And if they're doing a tribute to somebody, they'll do their finishing false move. You know that. And it was a callback to, you know, so and so in 2003. And it's this like, I don't care because the match I want to see are these two dudes, right? I don't. I don't care about all that. And I know there's gonna be a freaking circus of people in the finish of that match. And I already know it's probably going to happen. So I won't be disappointed. I won't have expectation conflict because I'm already expecting that there will be some kind of, you know, parade of people who knows who will come back for one time again, you know, at the end, you know, we had the Cody story and you know, the Undertaker came back there for a few minutes in the. In the first Cody WrestleMania. So anyway, yeah, it's not a rant, it's just there are things about it I will enjoy, but for the most part, those kinds of things kind of I don't care for. [02:12:23] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, definitely. [02:12:27] Speaker C: We got a four way with the women. I wish there were about two, three tag team matches out of this, but Nia Jax and Lash Legend are the champions. Charlotte Flair, Alexa Bliss Bailey and Lyra Valkyria and the Bella twins are all in the scrambled eggs match here. I don't know. [02:12:48] Speaker B: Well, this is part of what WrestleMania has done for a very long time now. I would say definitely in the 21st century where it's like you have to have these matches where you squeeze in as many people as you can so they could get their kind of WrestleMania paydays. You know, they used to have the hardcore. They would do the hardcore match where 14 different people win the title over the course of the night, or they do all these different battle royals and these are the things they do to try to get people on the show. And this is just one of those matches, I think. I think Lash Legend and Nia Jax, more Lash Legend, I think. I think she's got a ton of potential. I'm a huge fan of hers. I think she's a natural and she's gonna really kill it, you know, in the next few years for sure. [02:13:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:13:32] Speaker B: I like. [02:13:32] Speaker D: You know, I'm a fan of the Damien Priest and he's a big Yankees fan. Him and R Truth, I guess, are their tag champs right now, but I don't even know if they're on this card at all. [02:13:43] Speaker C: They're not. They're not on the show, I don't think. [02:13:46] Speaker B: Wow. [02:13:46] Speaker C: I like a Lash legend. I like the Bellas. I like the Bellas and I like Charlotte. [02:13:52] Speaker D: Yeah. [02:13:53] Speaker C: Take everybody else out of it. You could have a great. [02:13:55] Speaker D: Bailey's good. [02:13:57] Speaker B: It's almost like they're just saying, we're going to put the entire women's tag team division in one match. Just throw them all in there. [02:14:02] Speaker C: Well, everybody. Yeah, everybody who's not in the singles. AJ Lee and Becky lynch for the Intercontinental title, which is kind of. They got three women's matches. Well, no, they're breaking it up with Seth and Gunther, which just came out of nowhere. I don't know. I don't. I don't have a story for that. Maybe there is one, but they've got A.J. lee and Becky lynch and then Seth Rollins and Gunther. Seth is not retiring, is he? [02:14:29] Speaker B: Well, I don't know. Maybe after the match he will be. [02:14:31] Speaker C: I mean, that's kind of been Gunther's story anyway. [02:14:33] Speaker B: You're right. This one came out of nowhere. [02:14:35] Speaker D: You know, they might steal the show, those two. [02:14:38] Speaker A: I mean. [02:14:39] Speaker B: Yeah, as a match, I think they could. Yeah. But it just does seem like they just pulled it out of a hat. You know, Gunther just came. The storyline was basically. Gunther just came out and attacked Seth Rollins for no reason. I mean, that really was it. [02:14:50] Speaker C: I. I like Stephanie Vacuur quite a bit, even though she, you know, she does a lot of high spots, but I like her as a performer, and it's her and Liv Morgan for the world title for the women. And I don't. I don't know. I mean, they really love Liv Morgan up there. I mean, so. I mean, they really do. And I'm not saying anything against her, but I just feel like that's maybe a title change there. [02:15:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I think so. [02:15:22] Speaker D: And I. [02:15:22] Speaker B: My thing is, when it comes to women wrestlers, especially today, when it this division so strong and they treat women with such respect as performers and they spotlight them so well. I have a real bias and I know it's something. I think it's something that. That Jim Cornett has talked about before, too, where I'm a. I'm a big fan. The women Wrestlers, for me, they have to look like athletes. They have to look like they're wrestlers. You know, something in the same way I would say for the men, you know, and Liv Morgan does not check that box off for me. You know, I look at Charlotte Flair, that, that's a wrestler. I look at Lash legend Nia Jax, even though Nia Jax is, is, is, is maybe dangerous in the ring, but just to look at them and the way they work and Rhea Ripley, for sure. I look at and, and I go, okay, that is a wrestler. And you see how they work and stuff. I have problems with wrestlers like Alexa Bliss and Liv Morgan. And I even used to say it about Sasha Banks slash Mercedes Monet. And I would get killed for that because I think she's very charismatic and talented. But I look at her and I go, this is just a little girl. I mean, sure, she could probably kick my ass. I'm sure. Okay, I'm not gonna say. But I go, I just don't buy this. I don't see that this person as an athlete. And to me, Liv Morgan is in that category. So, you know, she's very good at what she does. She's a great character, she's a great heel. But, you know, and that's a shame [02:16:52] Speaker C: that no one really believes in June. [02:16:54] Speaker D: I can't wait for Rhea Ripley. Ripley. She's the whole show. I mean, I doub. Anybody will get a bigger pop than her on the entire show. [02:17:02] Speaker C: And that's a shame. [02:17:02] Speaker B: I mean, she's immensely over. There have been times. [02:17:05] Speaker C: Go ahead, Brian. [02:17:08] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I was just gonna say there have been times. I don't know if I'd say it right now where I would say that she's the most over person they have. I mean, there were definitely moments in her career and that's amazing for a female wrestler. I think, you know, people like to compare her to China. I, I think there's no comparison because China had some such a. She was great. I was there when she was there, but a limited little window and that wasn't all her fault. But, but Rhea Ripley has shown that she can consistently be one of their top hands. And, you know, I put her way up there on the all time great list for women wrestlers in my mind, even with a career that's not even close to being done yet. [02:17:47] Speaker D: Yeah, it's like Jim Cornette said, I don't know why she's not in one of those Marvel movies already. I mean, she should be popping movie theaters with their big moves. [02:17:56] Speaker C: Yeah, it's A shame that no promotion out there really believes in junior or light heavyweight titles anymore. Because I think if you separated these people, I can see that. Yeah, yeah. If you separated your Alexas and your Stephanie Vakour and Lib Morgan's and I mean, there's enough talent that you could do that. And even on the men's side, you, you know, if you, you put Javon Evans and I show speed and those guys into a separate division where, you know, comparison always is a bad thing. Anytime you can compare, it's. It's why Vince Sr. Never wanted the photos of anybody comparable to Andre's height to be taken. Right. He always wanted people that were regular size and Andre looked like a giant. And the famous. [02:18:46] Speaker B: The Wilt Chamberlain story. [02:18:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:18:48] Speaker B: You know that story. Yeah. [02:18:50] Speaker C: And then you. Then when you have Nia Jax and Lash Legend and Charlotte and some of these other people competing, it looks more like a competitive wrestling match. Because when Alexa Bliss arm drags Lash Legend, that doesn't look like that, you know, it looks like. It looks like Lash Legend is throwing herself across the ring. [02:19:12] Speaker B: Because there's no I idea there of how to work that kind of a match. I think it can be done, but you can't just work it the same way you would work it if it was two equally sized guys. I mean, Rey Mysterio has made a career out of being David and David and Goliath. He knows how to do it. He could have a match with the Big show and he has, and it'll be a great match because they know how to do it. I went to an Indy card once up here in New York. I hate to say it, it was. I won't even say the promotion, but the main event was two guys that I like, but it was. Do you know who Wrecking Ball Lagerski is? He's been in the nwa. Okay. It was. He's. He's a mountain. He is like what you think of, like a wrestler out of like a Bugs Bunny cartoon or something. He's a mountain. And they had him in there with Darby Allen. And the thing is, the. I don't even have a problem with that, is that they worked the match as if they were the same size. And if it made it ridiculous, just ridiculous, where, like you said, doing arm drags and doing all like they're locking up, like they're the same size. And to me that's just laziness or [02:20:16] Speaker C: even, you know, sounds like a modern [02:20:17] Speaker D: day Rusty Brooks, your friend, or, or, [02:20:21] Speaker C: or let's say Nia Jax climbs to the top rope and then Alexa Bliss climbs up there and catches her and suplexes her. I mean that doesn't, I mean, come on. You know, I can't believe it, right? All right, I got, I really, I've been looking forward to you guys thoughts about OB family and Brock Lesnar. [02:20:39] Speaker B: That, that's the one to me, I mean that is, I, they'll, they, they're not going to do it, but I think they could main event with that if they wanted to. And I don't think anybody would complain and I think fans would buy it. It's, it's one of those things. It's like, it's like we have said this, this is not rocket science. Right? Pro wrestling does not have to be rocket science. In booking, you can have these incredible well thought out chess match type programs, like all the bloodline stuff, or you could just go, here's a friggin huge monster and here's another friggin huge monster. They hate each other's guts and they're going to find out who's the, who's the best and you're off to the races. And this match is such a great example of that. I mean, like I can tell you what my nine year old son, this is the one he wants to see. This is the match that he won't shut up about. This is like a comic book come to life. So I mean, I am fully behind this match. I think Obafemi needs to win, but that's a whole different category. We'll see what happens with that. [02:21:41] Speaker C: I don't care who wins. I just hope this is, I just hope this isn't the only time they wrestle. Like, I hope this goes on for a while. I hope, I hope this becomes a program. [02:21:51] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I agree. And they've done a great job of making Lesnar seem vulnerable, which is not easy to do. [02:21:57] Speaker D: Right. [02:21:58] Speaker C: And Brock can work, I mean, so you know, he'll make it good, I think. [02:22:04] Speaker B: Oh, there was never a question about that. [02:22:06] Speaker C: Yeah. Finn Balor and Dominic Mysterio in a match and we've got us title Sami Zayn and Trick Williams. God, is Trick William Williams over? Golly, he is. [02:22:18] Speaker B: I wrote a column about him in PWI talking about how he really is one of those people, when you watch enough wrestling, you just kind of know when someone has the thing, they just have it and they're going to be a big star. They just have it, you know, and he has it, he comes out and people just know. That's why I think one of the biggest drawbacks of Developmental has always been they bring these guys out and their whole Persona is their original rookie. They're. They're new and they're trying to climb up the ladder. And I hate to say this, but to the average wrestling fan, what they hear when you say that is Jobber. I hate. No, no, really. And then they don't want to hear that. You know, they want to hear a guy walk in the door and he's a big deal when he walks in the door. And this idea of, you know, because then you've had some of the guys that have made it, they have had to overcome that. Randy Orton had to overcome that. They hung that around his neck when he came in. Oh, he's the blue chip youngster, second generation. Generation. That means you're a jobber. And he had to overcome that. John Cena had to overcome that. With the Trick Williams, they pulled this off where that man walked through the curtain day one, and you go, this guy's a star. This guy is a big deal, somebody to care about. The only problem I have with the matches, it's one of those weird. They do this a lot now where it's like, there's a lot of nuance there. And you're going, well, who, who are the fans supposed to get behind? Because Sammy is starting to really, really kind of get Heelish in this interesting way, which I love, where it's just sort of like. Like he even said in his promo last night, he said, what did I even do to make you start hating me? But it's perfectly done because he's right. You're going, like, this has been so gradual that I don't even know why I don't like him anymore. I just know I don't like him anymore. And, and the thing with Trick Williams is I thought he was supposed to be the heel, but everybody loves him, even though he acts like a heel. So it's like, I, That's. Maybe I am too simplistic, but I look at it going, I don't know who I'm supposed to root for here, you know, but. [02:24:18] Speaker A: But I'm. [02:24:19] Speaker C: That's one of the things about the, the. The old pro wrestling paradigm that sneak in the. The slow turn, you know, I mean, that, that used to be done to high effectiveness in the older days. And so I think that's probably why you like it. Like, like I say, there are things. Things that I like that happened, and that's. I agree. I like Sammy. I like what he's becoming great. [02:24:45] Speaker B: He's great in everything. Yeah. [02:24:46] Speaker C: Well, Steve's favorite woman wrestler of all time, Jade Cargill and Rhea Ripley are in the next match. So, Steve, who's winning this match? [02:25:00] Speaker D: I think Ria's going to win the match, I think. And I think I'll be one of the highlights of the show for sure. [02:25:06] Speaker C: I hope she does, and I hope the Jade, I think, is over. [02:25:12] Speaker B: Wow. See, I think. Well, first of all, I just want to say that this match wins the award for the match that I most want to be in. That's. I'll just, you know, get that out of the way. I know I'm normally against. [02:25:24] Speaker C: You'd be a better referee. You'd be a great referee for this. [02:25:27] Speaker B: This. That's the one triple threat match that I would be okay with. [02:25:30] Speaker C: With. [02:25:30] Speaker B: But I will say this. The thing with Jade is it's been very disappointing to me because she's one of the. I almost feel like the way a wrestling promoter would feel, which is, you look at her and you go, God, why isn't this working? I don't understand. Because I really want this to work. Because you look at her and you go, this woman is money in the bank. You know what I mean? But she doesn't have. Have what they need her to be. And I think that it tells you a lot that they went something like a year and a half before they even had the confidence to put her in a one on one program with anybody. They had her with Bianca Belair for a long time. They had her off TV for a while. You could just tell that there was a. I don't want to say buyer's remorse, but there was a sense of, she needs more work than we thought. And when they finally put the title on her and they had had her beat Tiffany Stratton in such a dominating way, I kind of thought this is their way of kind of saying, okay, it's put up or shut up time. Like, you need to be able to do this or not. And so we're going to give you this chance. And I really think this is her big chance. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I really want her to work, but I'm losing. I'm losing more and more confidence as more time goes by. [02:26:44] Speaker C: Unfortunately, I think Jade fits in the category of the other guys we were talking about. I think she has an amazing look, and I think people look at her like, this is money in the bank. This is, you know, this is. This. This is really going to work. But for Whatever reason. And I think, you know, her work and Luger's work is comparable. Like, I mean, just really stiff and hardly any flexibility. And she stands up straight and, you know, doesn't register very much at all. And I think that, that, that's part of it. [02:27:18] Speaker B: I'm gonna just play devil's advocate and I'll say she has definitely gotten noticeably better since she's been in wwe. I mean, she was starting from negative numbers, but when she first came in, she literally did not look like she had any idea what she was doing. And I thought it was a very damning indictment on whatever the heck they're doing over in aew because it was like they, they had her in such a high position. They had that title on her for so long. She had the undefeated she streak and I felt like she was exposed. I mean, they put her in the ring and she would just kind of stand there and wait for things to happen around her, not really knowing what to do. I don't think she's that bad anymore, but I mean, there was only. You can only go up from there, you know. But I still think she has a long way to go. But then you have to say, well, how long is it going to take? I mean, she's been around a long time at this point, so there comes a point where you have to cut bait. You know, how long is it going to take before someone reaches where you want them to be? [02:28:16] Speaker C: I also wonder if, and I know this happens in sports for a fact. I mean, certainly used to happen to teams I was on. And I know it's happened in other sports or whatever. When you get under the manager skin a little bit, they do little things to let you know that. And I'm not sure that, you know, when Tiffany Stratton went off script last year, last year, I'm not sure that wasn't a little message like, okay, we're just going to put Jade over you like, like that and put. And hold you out of the picture for a while. And when you come back, you are going to have a little bit different perspective on this. I could be wrong. [02:28:53] Speaker B: I hadn't, I hadn't thought of that. But that's a really good point. If they were trying to humble her, I immediately looked at it as, okay, this is our. Now we're going to put everything we've got behind Jade and it's either going to work or it's not going to work because she's been here two years and we have to try something. But that could Be part of it too. [02:29:10] Speaker C: All right, Steve, CM Punk and Roman Reigns. What goes on here? [02:29:16] Speaker D: I think CM Punk finally gets his reward. I think he's going to win the. Win the match and it's going to be a hell of a match. I don't think we'll be disappointed. [02:29:25] Speaker C: You know, I'm reminded of a Terry Funk interview I saw one time where he talked about going off script and doing his impromptu promos and the things that he would say that he knew for sure for a shoot used to get under Ric Flair skin. Like when he talked about his nose or what nose. I'm not sure. There isn't some things in some of these promos between these two guys that aren't. I mean, I think. I think it's all wrestling, but at the same time. I mean, that's what I like about it though. I mean, after the show is over and I've listened to either them talk to each other or do a promo about one another, I got take it off the show. Good. I bet he didn't like that, you know. [02:30:09] Speaker B: Yeah. And to me, it's a great example of why I still watch wrestling. And sometimes you've got to let go of being the old school stickler and allow yourself to be entertained. Because I'll give you an example. All these years later and you guys have been watching longer than me, so I'm sure you think the same thing. I still can't get comfortable with this scenario where wrestlers can just take over the show and get in the ring and talk for as long as they feel feel like and there's no interviewer there and there's no rhyme or reason and we're just going to stop the matches and let these guys have a Shakespearean exchange in the ring. I've never been able to get fully comfortable with that. I liked it when they would do it as a rare thing. Like when Bret Hart snapped 30 years ago. I felt like that was the first time they really did it and it worked. But having said that, I have to let go. Because when you've got guys that are so good at it, as CM Punk is, you have to just sit there and go, this is just so damn good. I'm not going to sit here and quibble about what he's doing in the ring. He's just so good at what he does and he makes you. He, as they used to say, I don't know what the equivalent is. He talks you into the building. He is a master at doing it and you can't not Enjoy it as a fan, you know. [02:31:23] Speaker D: You know, when he was in wcw, when he was in AEW and they wanted to build that Saturday night show around him before that blow up that occurred and got fired. He really was such a good storyteller in the ring and was such a throwback to the days that I was familiar with. I mean I, I really bought into him, you know, hook, line and sinker. And, and that's why I think this match will definitely be a standout on the show. I mean just, just that high caliber storytelling and Roman will keep up with him. And you know, I'm not expecting a lot out of this show. If I get one or two matches where I'm completely satisfied or at least somewhat satisfied, that's, that's good enough for me. [02:32:04] Speaker C: I would say too that I think this is something to think about as far as that. I think I've adjusted to what Brian was talking about with the interviews and all. And the way I've adjusted to it is that I understand and know for sure that they are now owned by a talent agency. And the only aspiration for someone in the previous paradigms of wrestling was to be in the main event or to be in Madison Square Garden or to work in the Keel Auditorium. That was the high aspirations or to wear the world title. But now the high aspirations for a performer in the WWE or any other thing is I need a movie deal or I need to be in commercials, or I need to do something outside wrestling that's in entertainment focused. And my interview time during these shows, that's my audition. And I'm going to show them I can act right. And I'm gonna, they're gonna give me the extra time to do that. And while I don't enjoy it, I understand it, if that makes sense. [02:33:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:33:14] Speaker B: And the reason I go with it because to me it's all about again, it's about the believability. It's about making me feel like it's, it's real, then I can forgive it. If you make me feel like it's really these guys flying off the handle and not being able to contain themselves. So they have to say these things, get it off their chest. I buy it like, and with Punk and Reigns, I, I buy it completely. And like there have been ones recently. I think it was a year or two ago with the Cody Rhodes thing. I remember there was one with Cody Rhodes and Paul Heyman that was off the charts where you almost felt like they had tears in their eyes. [02:33:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:33:47] Speaker B: And you could feel it was real stuff happening, happening there. And you know, there was, there was a video that made the rounds and I shared it recently where it was Roddy Piper and Rick Rude from Prime Time Wrestling. I don't know if you saw this, where they went nuts in the studio. They were yelling and screaming. Gorilla and Bobby are getting between them. It really felt like the show had broken down. You really felt like this wasn't supposed to happen. The talking over each other, which is so important. What kills me with these things is you start to just feel like you're watching a play. I say my line, I pause, you say your line. And so when they break out from that and it feels like, whoa, what are they? He, Was he supposed to say that? That's when it works. And the Punk Reigns thing is in that category for me. [02:34:31] Speaker C: I think when I think back to the old days, I go back to the TBS studio show. I think the most realistic thing I ever saw on a wrestling show was it was a Saturday night episode, World Championship Wrestling back in the mid to late 80s. And it was a different time in a different place. But Flair went off the charts and started banging his forehead until he started bleeding. [02:34:57] Speaker B: Yes, I've seen that. [02:34:59] Speaker C: Yeah, I think that's the most real thing I've ever seen on a wrestling show because he was obviously really bleeding. I mean, he was really, you know, had been probably bleeding like a stuck pig the night before wherever they wrestled. And this was early on Saturday morning and just started, you know, it was running down his face and he was doing a maniac promo. But like, I think that's why I like the Roman and Punk stuff because after it goes off I'm like, I don't think that, I think some of that jab was a little too stiff, you know what I mean? [02:35:31] Speaker B: So yeah, I like the guys that can make you believe it for sure. [02:35:35] Speaker C: All right, final thoughts. It's going on from Friday. What would that be? April 17th, all the way through Tuesday, April 21st. So Steve, what will you watch on this entire extravaganza of a weekend? What, what will be watched at the Generali household? [02:35:54] Speaker D: I have to work Friday. My, my regular shift is like from noon to 9. So when I'm done at 9, my goal is, is to stay up and watch the hall of Fame as much as I can until I fall asleep. Saturday I have to work a 12 hour shift. I have to work from 8am to 8pm so. But I will queue up Wrestlemania in the Living room. I will make sure it's ready When I go out there and watch as much as I can, I know Erica will be wearing her headset. She'll be listening to a podcast or something, and. And then on Sunday, I'll watch as much as I can. But like I told you guys earlier, if I get, like, two good matches out of all this nonsense, and if I get a little bit of fun out of the hall of Fame, I. I'll figure, like, I got my money's worth. I'm not. I'm not looking for more than that. That's. That's all I'm expecting out of this. [02:36:44] Speaker C: Well, Brian, you. You have to cover it. I mean, you. You have. You have to have comments and thoughts on other shows and programs and publications. So. Well, you. Will you watch the whole. Whole thing? [02:36:54] Speaker B: Well, I would if I could. Here's the thing. So hall of Fame. I'm sad in a way now because of the streaming platform thing. They've abandoned any idea of having a civilized time zone compromise between east and West. They just gave up on it. I can't imagine watching that. I don't think I could watch it live. I can't do it. I'll probably. I'll watch it later. I know last year I watched it after WrestleMania Mania, but for the. I'm all clear for Saturday. I'm ready. Like, my whole day is going to be built around it, but this is hilarious. You want to talk about sublime to the ridiculous? So for Sunday, I have a subscription. I take my son to this every year that I try to get this kid cultured as much as possible. We go to the Stanford Symphony. [02:37:38] Speaker A: We have a. [02:37:38] Speaker B: We have a subscription every year in Stanford, Connecticut. Sunday afternoon is their last show of the season. Season. So I'm going to be rushing back home after seeing. I think it's Rhapsody in Blue by Gershwin in my suit and tie, driving back from Stanford to strip down into my civilian clothes and watch WrestleMania. I think that is, in a nutshell, my life. The one thing is. I hope he doesn't hear me. I haven't told my son this, but supposedly the first match on night two is going to be Obafemian and Brock Lesnar. And that is the match that I think we might miss some of if we're. Because the shoe you're going to be driving down from Stanford. I'm not even telling him because he's going to want to not go, so. But that's. That's what my weekend's looking like. [02:38:26] Speaker C: I can't remember. [02:38:27] Speaker A: I'll. [02:38:27] Speaker C: I'll totally Flub the time that it happened, but it was well after midnight, so I'll just say 1am but last year I was getting text messages from Stacy Funk because Dory Senior went in and all. A lot of the family members were there for the, for the hall of Fame and she was sending me messages going, it's 1am and we're not even halfway through this show. Like, oh my gosh, this is going so slow. [02:38:55] Speaker B: I don't know. It seems to even be impractical in the sense that these guys have to turn around and work the next night now. You're exhausting them. There's a lot of wrestlers that are there, like when are they going to sleep? [02:39:07] Speaker C: You know, and you have to sit with people that are in your storyline. Like you can't. Like I remember Ria and Dominic sitting together like they were a couple last year and. And her real life boyfriend, who's now her husband, was sitting in the other seat off camera, you know. [02:39:22] Speaker B: Yes. I noticed that she had him on Buddy Matthews on one side and Dom on the other and they wouldn't even show him on camera. [02:39:27] Speaker C: Right, right. [02:39:28] Speaker B: Notice that. Yeah, yeah. [02:39:29] Speaker C: And she had to kind of lean over on Dominic when she knew the camera was on. It was, I thought it was funny. I'm going to be in Dyersburg, Tennessee on Saturday. So I'm getting involved, getting inducted into their hall of Champions at the Herb Welch Wrestleplex. So it's their biggest, it's their biggest local wrestling card of the year in Dyersburg, Tennessee. And so I'm going to be down there. But you know the magic of today's technology. I probably get up on Sunday morning at like 8am and start the Saturday, Saturday night show and let it run until the Sunday live comes on and just watch it all in one big. Not the Friday night, I'll watch that, but the Saturday night and Sunday I'll watch probably all day Sunday throughout having coffee and what I usually do is just have it on and when something's interesting I want to watch, I'll watch it. Otherwise it'll just be in the background. But it's a big deal. It's the biggest deal in pro wrestling is the WrestleMania a week. And gosh, they're only two days away from it being a whole solid week long. So. And I know people that are there, you know, that go to the Russell World or whatever they have with all the merch and signings and all that. It's a, it's a huge event. So you guys, if we see it, [02:40:46] Speaker D: we See a great uptick, uptick in the refereeing in the WWF in the next couple of months. We know that Triple H listens to [02:40:54] Speaker C: your podcast and you and all of you will have us to thank for it, especially Brian, who just basically went on an essay about how we need to change it so. Or at least change it back. Got the referee. Check their boots. Come on. We got to check and make sure they don't have anything on them. [02:41:14] Speaker B: That's right. It's important. [02:41:15] Speaker C: All right, thanks, guys. I appreciate you coming by to talk about WrestleMania. [02:41:19] Speaker D: Thanks, guys. [02:41:22] Speaker C: Well, okay, that's our big blockbuster show today. It's quite a big one, right? As my grandpa, you say it was a big old Gooden or a good old Biggin. I don't know which one. But it was. It was good and it was big. And thank you so much for listening. We provided a lot of content today. My visit with John Mayer McCall, nice guy. I mean, really nice guy. I really enjoyed talking with him. Great voice, great relationship with his wife, Melissa Fox, on the show. And so we're going to miss him in the podcast environment, but I don't think he's going to be going very far. Like I said, he loves wrestling, wants to do some wrestling history work. And so I, for one, and I'm sure a lot of my brethren will support him whenever possible. Such a great guy. And then Steve Giannarelli and Brian Solomon stopping by and us having a little round table discussion about WrestleMania 42, zeroing in on this year's hall of Fame ceremony, but going through and talking about just a whole bunch of stuff, you know, just a potpourri of wrestling talk here on the. On the show today. And so I hope you enjoyed it. I enjoyed the conversation. Hey, I could spend all day talking to those guys about those topics and others. All right. This weekend, I know it's WrestleMania, but like I just mentioned during our roundtable discussion, I'll be joining Green, Greg Anthony and all the guys down in Dyersburg, Tennessee this week because it's going to be their biggest card of the year. We're going to be doing Wrestle Brawl, Ultra Brawl. Sorry, Ultra Brawl down in Dyersburg, Tennessee. And I'm excited about being down there. I'm looking for my details. Here we go. Yeah. Ultra Brawl 20, 27 6. It's. It's a huge event for the independent promotion down there in Dyersburg. They run Ripley, Tennessee, Friday night, they run Dyersburg on Saturday night. It's Pro Wrestling Mid south, and it's going to be at the Herb Welch Wrestleplex. Now, for those of you who don't know, Herb Welch was one of the Welch brothers. And their booking office for Mid South Booking was in Dyer's Broadway. That's where Roy Welch established the Tennessee territory there in Dyersburg, very in a corner with about five states around it. And I detailed all of that history in the series we did on Roy Welch and family on the Briscoe and Bradshaw podcast. We had 10 episodes. We just added our 11th episode. More on that in just a minute. So it's this Wrestleplex building where they have wrestling every week in Dyersburg is named after Herb Welch who was the workhorse wrestler of the Welch brothers. And this is one of their biggest shows of the year. They had their warm up show called A Countdown to Ultra Bra this past week on April 11th. So now out of all that excitement, all those matches and all those happenings, the Anthony Express won the tag Team Battle Royal to earn a world Tag Team championship shot at Ultra Brawn. That's going to be the big match there this week. If you don't know where it is, it's at 1827St. John Avenue in Dyersburg. And like I said, they run every Friday night down in Ripley, which is a town just a few miles away, and then Dyersburg, usually general admission. And I don't know for sure Greg is going to send me something on this, but I mean you, you can't imagine how affordable this is. Many times and I don't know about this weekend, a lot of times kids, if they're under 7, they get in free or they get a really strongly discounted ticket and most of their tickets are in the under $10 range. So I mean, it's a family friendly independent pro wrestling show and like I always say, support live local wrestling where you can, I mean, all these guys are keeping this thing alive out in all of these areas. James Beard down in Texas, Bo James over in East Tennessee. And I understand now in North Alabama you got Herb Simmons up in the St. Louis area in the Southern Illinois territory and you got these guys down in West Tennessee who are tearing it up. And so it's going to be a great time. And I'm going to be there because of the Roy Welch Legacy series that I did with Briscoe and Bradley Bradshaw. Greg Anthony and their championship committee has decided to put me in their hall of Champions, which is basically their hall of fame there in Dyersburg. So I'm going to get inducted into the hall of Champions and make an appearance there at Ultra Brawl and I hope that if you listen to this show and you're in the five or six state area here, the old Tennessee territory, you'll come out. And if you have to make a little road trip this weekend, come on out and join us because you won't be disappointed. Disappointed. You can find them on Facebook. It's facebook.comfront/pwmidsout. You can find them on Instagram at Pro Wrestling Midsouth and their website ispro wrestling midsouth.com and it has a this week's Cards section where you can find all the event info for this weekend's Ultra Brawl show. If you're in the Dyersburg West Tennessee area. Like I said, it's a great low cost night of local wrestling fun and family entertainment and just a good time. And I'm looking forward to meeting everybody down there in Dyersburg this weekend as I get inducted into their hall of Champions. And I am very honored and thrilled and can't wait to be there just mainly to meet everybody and to say hi if you want to the Briscoe Bradshaw show, we got George Gulas. And so on episode 11 of the Roy Welch Legacy series, we finally got George finishing up his basketball refereeing gigs and schedule and just before he's about to have hip surgery and we got him on with JBL and Jerry and I and we had a blast. An hour and a half of talking to George Goulis about the Gulas family, all the, all the restaurants and all the pro wrestling stuff and the towns and about Nick and how growing up with a famous father, getting picked on in schools and getting bullied in school because people made fun of his dad because he was in the wrestling business. You know how kids will be. And then all the scrutiny and abuse that George has taken for the last 40 years, especially in this era of podcasting. And so it's interesting. George tells an amazing story about a later encounter with Jerry Jarrett and with Jeff Jarrett. He talks about great memories with Bobby Fulton, great memories with Dennis Condrey, great memories with Tojo Yamamoto. I about shed a tear. And also great memories with Jackie Fargo and with others. And it's really, really a good episode. If you get a chance, check it out. Stories with Briscoe and Bradshaw, jbl, Jerry Briscoe and myself talking to George Goulis in that 11th episode of the Roy Welch series. And that's what got me inducted into the Dyersburg hall of Champions. So I'm very proud of that series, very proud of my involvement with the Welch family and with Ron Fuller and Robert Fuller and Jimmy Graham golden and with all the all the others that I've been able to meet and form a relationship with and I think the world of them and I think the feelings mutual. So good times. Let me tell you where you can find me and then we'll get out of here. Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel Facebook Group Come on over. Fill out the form. It's easy clearance and easy membership acceptance. We have a great group there. We have a bunch of people who are very serious about pro wrestling wrestling history. Lots of great posts, lots of great contributions. You will love it over at Facebook if Facebook is your thing. You'll love it if X is your thing. Or you know the formerly Twitter. You can follow me at Tony Richards 4 have some great conversations on there with some wonderful people who are pro wrestling history enthusiasts. And we have our YouTube channel, Tony Richards Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel. You YouTube where you can come over like our videos and subscribe to our channel. There are brand new videos on there almost every single day. We update often. So come over to YouTube and our hub for everything is the substack. So come on over, become a subscriber to the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel. You'll get our daily chronicle every morning at 5am with wrestling history stuff pertaining to that day and wrestling history with our RIP Salutes, our birthday list, and usually a analysis of something in the Territory era in pro wrestling or a little biography that I've written about one of the people who helped build the territories during that era. Coming up here on the show next week, I'm excited because Howard Baum and I will be here. Howard Baum and I welcome Steve Kern to the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel History show as we go back to championship wrestling from Florida in 1976 as part of our 1976 Territory Review Series. Can't wait to share it with you. It's going to be a great show. Kern was awesome, Baum was awesome and I just showed up. So I will see you back here again next week. Have a wonderful WrestleMania. Have a wonderful week everybody. And we'll see you right here next week. And you see, we'll remember if you want better neighbors, start by being a better neighbor. So long everybody from the Bluegrass State. [02:51:39] Speaker A: Thanks for tuning in to the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel podcast. Tune in for another great episode next week interviewing wrestlers, referees and media personalities that have made the sport of professional wrestling great. [02:51:53] Speaker D: We'll release a new episode soon. [02:51:55] Speaker A: Soon. Don't you dare miss it.